C4 Diesel Adblue Tank

[Hell Razor5543]

Hi, and to the Forum.

Your garage is wrong. There will NOT be a separate Urea tank (that is, after all, what Ad Blue is!), but there may well be a different additive tank for a different (Eolys) fluid. This is managed differently to the Ad Blue, and normally does not have a level indicator (as it adds a fixed amount every time the fuel tank has fuel added), so it calculates how much is used against how much it has (from when the additive tank was filled and counter reset). When this drops below the level that would take it to the next service interval you will get the warning message. You MUST make sure to get the correct additive for YOUR vehicle (as there will be a couple of possibilities), as mixing the additives will result in problems.

[GiveMeABreak]

Hi. We’ve just joined this forum because our 2014 c4 Grand Picasso 2.0L is still displaying the UREA warning and the dreaded “ countdown “ despite us having put 10L of ad blue in. We’ve just visited our local garage ( not Citroen) who ran diagnostics, said he’d cleared the ad blue problem, (although all the error messages still remain???)but said that there is a separate Urea tank which must need topping up and can only be done at a garage because it’s a tank behind the diesel tank and can only be accessed from under the car. We’re now totally confused because no one on this forum has mentioned a separate UREA tank. Please can anyone advise at all because we are certainly confused.com.

There is only one UREA tank and one Eolys DPF additive tank - both entirely separate systems with separate functions. Change your garage....

I doubt it will be the Eolys (DPF) additive tank as that has separate warnings when it needs topping up. As you have a specific Adblue warning then this is likely to be the issue. If you have left it to get too low it may need a couple of journeys to settle down, so wait for a few more trips and see if it goes out then. If not, then you need to do some more troubleshooting, but be prepared for a new tank.

If you've got a warning that the adblue is low with a countdown to engine not starting, and you've filled it up but the error remains, then unfortunately it almost certainly needs a new ad blue tank (which is going to set you back around £1k....). If the error is a more generic Depollution Fault, then it could be that the Eolys DPF additive tank needs refilling. That your garage doesn't know the difference and can't apparently look under the car does not inspire confidence; you might need to find someone else to look at it.

Agreed 100%.

[Spaniel lover]

Thank you all for your clarification on this matter. We definitely will avoid our local garage in future!! Have now been to our nearest Citroen dealership and they have tried re-initialisation.....warning still reappeared....went back the next day and paid to have a computer upgrade as main technician thought that would sort it but....warning reappeared again.
We’ve now got to take it in on 5th July for them to see which adblue tank is on it so they can order a replacement. Boo hoo...what an expensive pain!! Mind you....we are left wondering just exactly what our local garage would have worked on had we booked it in with them!? And they’re not just a small back street concern they work on loads of commercial vehicles and are a big business.

[Judy0906]

I have a Citroen Berlingo Multispace and have encountered this exact issue, and have been quoted in excess of £2000 by Charters Aldershot Dealership to repair.

My local garage can do this for £1600 however I need advice and feel extremely vulnerable and angry at this point.

I bought the vehicle in October last year and am not sure it has a full service history however, as this issue would not have been highlighted to the previous owner regardless, the service history has nothing to do with the real issue which is an underlying, identified Citroen motor vehicle fault.

My first question is: do I get my local garage to repair it while tackling Citroen and asking for compensation or would that give them yet another point to contend?

My second question is: who do I contact at Citroen?

I look forward to your advice.

Judith

[GiveMeABreak]

Hi Judith & Welcome.

First of all it will help if we knew the age of the vehicle and the mileage, as these factors can impact what sort of assistance you can expect from Citroen. Pop the VIN up if you can (automasked on post submission) and that will provide us with the engine and other equipment fitted to save asking questions on that.

Where did you buy the vehicle from? A private sale or a garage? and if a garage was it a Citroen dealership and what if any warranty did it have?

For now, until we know the answers to the above I would leave off from having another independent garage get involved. The reason being if there is any comeback to the manufacturer, they can easily decline to get involved if any intervention has been made concerning the issue by another garage.

[Judy0906]

Thank you for your reply - I will respond shortly with the VIN number etc.

[Judy0906]

Marc,

Here is a summary of where I’m at:

Citroen Berlingo - VIN VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]

The vehicle has a full service history up to the mileage of 61199 (4/1/2020) all carried out by Wilmoths Citroen in Guildford.

The vehicle was then sold to Redcote Leisure Ltd who serviced the vehicle at mileage of 69620 (9/12/2020) at 3 Cross MOT Centre near Ringwood.

I then purchased the vehicle from Redcote Leisure Ltd at a mileage of 73349 (26/10/2021).

I had an interim service carried out at mileage of 75258 (28/1/2022) at Liphook Auto Services.

On 26 May 2022, the Urea warning light issue started and on investigation I was advised that there was a Technical Bulletin B1KW0113Q0 that needed to be attended to by a Citroen Dealership at which point I took it to Charters Citroen in Aldershot.

When I mentioned the TB to the Dealership, I was told there was no bulletin and quoted me in excess of £2000 to replace the AdBlue tank and injector.

I intend claiming for compensation based on the fact that, at no stage did Wilmoths Citroen Dealership advise the previous owner of the known AdBlue tank issue - clearly known to them, did not recall the vehicle, and have subsequently denied that there is/was a Technical Bulletin or original factory fault with this vehicle model.

Please point me in the right direction to submit my claim.

Judith

[GiveMeABreak]

Ok, so first off if what you say is correct, then the Charters in Aldershot are wrong or did not know where to look. There is in fact a B1KW0113Q0 Technical Service Bulletin for your vehicle:

Lighting of the urea warning lamp and displaying of the message "Emission control fault: starting prohibited in XXX km" on the multifunction screen - if fault code P20E8 is present

This is what the title is and it is located under the TSBs for the Emission Control section that the dealer has access to (Service Box). This document details 3 checks that need to be undertaken and various actions depending on the result of those checks. These can include replacing the Adblue Tank Cap, checking the electrical harness, and if tests bear it out, replacing the Adblue Tank itself.

They have specific procedures to follow in order to make a warranty claim back for the tank themselves, so they have to follow the guided procedures and recommended tests to first rule out anything else.

As far as I'm aware the Adblue Tanks are warranted for 5 years or 93k miles, so you may be out of luck on getting assistance from PSA on this - unless of course the issue was already formerly notified to a dealership within this period. What needs to be checked is what action they did or did not take as if the problem is recurring with the same fault code (P20E8) then it could be said that it was not fixed correctly at the time.

Citroen should be aware of any dealer intervention from when it was booked in at one of their dealerships as any warranty work or other work would be recorded. The issue you have at the time it went into Charters it was May 2022 and a year past the tank warranty.

The tanks are expensive to buy (currently £1242.00) inc. VAT from Citroen excluding fitting and any diagnostic time, just so you know.

Genuine new Adblue tanks can be bought on the aftermarket - here's one for £648 inc. VAT & Delivery:

https://www.neobrothers.co.uk/car-parts ... 9818531680

However, it is important to ascertain that the tank is at fault. We hear of a lot of these failing here with this issue around this time, so it's a good bet, but you will need it fitted of course and the pump primed using the diagnostic kit which needs a garage with suitable diagnostic software.

I must point out that there are other messages concerning the Adblue (SCR System) and these can have associated fault codes, which can mean different problems, like the Adblue injector itself or the injector harness for example or the NOx sensor. So difficult to advise fully on a Forum of course.

[Judy0906]

Thank you Marc. I am writing to Citroen as I believe they need to consider compensation of some kind. It’s not acceptable to brush off a well known issue.

[GiveMeABreak]

Ok, so good luck and do keep in touch re: the outcome as it always helps others.

[Spaniel lover]

Hi Judith and Marc. Sorry to read your tale of woe Judith. Even though our car is 2014 plate, it’s only done 58k miles so I have raised a case with Citroen uk....I rang them on 0800 093 9393. They have let me raise a case and I have to contact them again once we find out the cost of tank replacement after we go back to Citroen tomorrow. I don’t really hold much luck of getting any help because of vehicle age but, worth a try, I decided. Our car was recalled after we’d bought it in 2017 to have a replacement cap fitted to the adblue tank.
I’ll provide an update again after we’ve been tomorrow and I’ve contacted Citroen uk again.

[Spaniel lover]

Good morning...here we are again! So,yesterday we found out that the cost of supply and fitting will be £1208. This is for Fuel Tank Heat Shield Part No. 9808404280 and Urea Reservoir Part No. 9818559280. The parts are now on order and we’ve fed this info back to Citroen uk and now have to wait to hear from them. Our car was first registered on 30.4.14 and had its first 3 annual services at Citroen garages. My question now please, Marc,is....is there any way of finding out when Citroen first became aware of the problem with these Adblue tanks?
Whilst my husband can remember we had a recall after we had purchased on 27.7.17 for a new cap to be fitted, we’re now wondering if more components should have been looked at, at that time ( or indeed before then) to see if excessive pressure inside the tank had already led to premature wear and tear on the components? We know the car is now 8 years old but with the low mileage we hadn’t expected this nasty expensive shock. Thank you .

[GiveMeABreak]

Hi. There were several issues I’m aware of with earlier tanks. One being the Adblue tank cap design that was replaced and the other one being the corrosion / rusting of some of the internal metal components in earlier tanks.

As far as I’m aware, later tanks had more plastic components in to mitigate some of the damage caused by the air and the Urea. It’s why I always top up my Adblue tank every 2 months or so. Whether this will help long term remains to be seen.

Unfortunately, there is no way to get the data regarding when PSA knew about the issues as there are different tanks fitted to different models across the marques and the model ranges. They can only build up a picture of the issues over the years from investigation and following the diagnostic guided tests on customer vehicles over time as the vehicles are brought back with various warnings. These reports are then sent back to France I suspect from all over the world to build up a picture, which is likely to be used to feed back to the tank manufacturers.

I would guess that they would then come up with the warranty agreement between PSA and the manufacturer for failed tanks. Of course that data would likely be commercially sensitive, so we have no way of knowing the extent of the problems and which tanks are potentially still faulty or likely to suffer the same fate. The reason they are so expensive is that the pump unit is incorporated into the tanks with all the heating elements and the electronics.

[Spaniel lover]

Thank you very much for explaining this Marc. Once we get it replaced we will certainly follow your advice and top up regularly. Unfortunately our handbook is the March 2013 issue which makes no reference to Adblue or urea and the only advice we were given when we first collected the car from our Citroen garage was to “ wait for the prompt then top up”. We’d never had this before in our older diesel models and so didn’t know what it even was. We certainly do now!!

[GiveMeABreak]

The range for the Adblue varies considerable from model to model as you would expect, with the smaller vehicles having smaller tanks for example. The countdown warning will kick in once the reservoir fluid reaches a certain level. There will be several warnings to top up and the countdown will commence before the engine will not start.

I top up my Adblue every few months, so I can at least put in a decent amount, as I have a smaller tank. As you probably know Adblue crystallises when it is left in the open air, so my thinking is that it is tempting fate to leave the tank to get to a low level with all that air in there. I guess time will tell though..

Good luck with your conversation with Citroen and hopefully that may consider some gesture of good will.