Petrol fumes from THP engine
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Petrol fumes from THP engine
Our 308 CC with the EP6-CDT engine has started to smell of petrol, but it seems to be intermittent. The fumes are raw fuel (not exhaust nor crankcase fumes) and seem to be drawn in through the air conditioning system, usually after idling at traffic lights or similar. Annoyingly it has never happened at home, not has any smell been detected under the bonnet.
I have looked at all the visible fuel lines under the bonnet, and the vapour purge valve, but there is no sign of any leakage. The engine is running perfectly.
The crankcase fumes smell awful, but not of petrol.
I have also checked the connections to the high pressure fuel pump, but there is no leakage at either pipe. It is almost impossible to see the injector fuel rail, maybe it can be seen from underneath with the exhaust pie disconnected, but I have not gone that far yet.
Has anyone heard of any places where these engines leak?
I have looked at all the visible fuel lines under the bonnet, and the vapour purge valve, but there is no sign of any leakage. The engine is running perfectly.
The crankcase fumes smell awful, but not of petrol.
I have also checked the connections to the high pressure fuel pump, but there is no leakage at either pipe. It is almost impossible to see the injector fuel rail, maybe it can be seen from underneath with the exhaust pie disconnected, but I have not gone that far yet.
Has anyone heard of any places where these engines leak?
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Re: Petrol fumes from THP engine
Haven't had a petrol engine for many years so not familiar with modern ones, the only thing I can suggest is that you stop as soon as possible when you get the smell, lift the bonnet and have a good sniff/look.
Peter
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Re: Petrol fumes from THP engine
My mate had a Carina II that was perfectly fine until the sunroof was opened, after which the cabin filled with an overwhelming petrol pong.
Never did find out why.
Never did find out why.
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Re: Petrol fumes from THP engine
The annoying thing about petrol weeps is that they remain pretty much invisible
Not much help...
Not much help...
Chris
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Re: Petrol fumes from THP engine
Here are the known areas of petrol leaks. If you can narrow it down to one of the zones I can get a bit more detail. If the smell is coming in more or less as soon as or shortly after the engine is started, then more likely to be a fuel leak and - obviously near the air intake.
Zone | Description |
Zone "A" | Filling pipework assembly |
Zone "B" | Fuel gauge and pump assembly |
Zone "C" | Fuel tank |
Zone "D" | Pipework to engine |
Zone "E" | Canister absorber |
Zone "F" | Fuel filter |
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Marc
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Re: Petrol fumes from THP engine
Funny that the official list does not include the high pressure fuel pump or fuel rail, which are the 2 (expensive) components that come up as culprits for the same engine in a Mini.
I will look again at the HPFP. I hope that it is not the fuel rail, this picture shows the fuel rail from above after the manifold has been removed for access.
I will look again at the HPFP. I hope that it is not the fuel rail, this picture shows the fuel rail from above after the manifold has been removed for access.
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Re: Petrol fumes from THP engine
Sorry - I had to go and have just got back after a long afternoon - there is another one for the Engine Circuit - let me know the zone of interest:
[b]Zone[/b] | Description |
Zone "A" | Timing face |
Zone "B" | Coupling face |
Zone "C" | Inlet face |
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Marc
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Re: Petrol fumes from THP engine
I have spent some more time on this, and have found that the petrol fumes seem to be coming from the rear or timing end of the engine (zones A and C), but the fumes are only present when the engine is running, not when switched off nor with just to low pressure part of the system pressurised. This is not good news, as the high pressure components are almost inaccessible, and generally expensive.
Marc, can you find me the troubleshooting guides for engine zones A and C?
Marc, can you find me the troubleshooting guides for engine zones A and C?
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Re: Petrol fumes from THP engine
Will do, leave it with me...
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Marc
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Re: Petrol fumes from THP engine
Finally...
There are 2 sections - Leaks by Area (Zones A, B & C) or by known cases in the following table.
Leak Diagnostic by Known Cases
Leak Diagnostic by Area
Zone A - Timing Face
A1: Fuel Connection Towards Adaptor
Zone B - Coupling Face
Stage B1: Canister pipe on air inlet
Stage B2: Fuel supply pipe on high pressure fuel pump
Stage B3: High pressure fuel pipe on fuel pump
Zone C - Inlet Face
Inlet face - Injection system.
Stage C1: High pressure fuel supply pipe
Stage C2: Pressure sensor on the fuel high-pressure injection rail
Stage C3: Fuel injectors on the fuel high pressure common injection rail
Stage C4: Plug on fuel high pressure common injection rail
Inlet face: Fuel vapour recirculation circuit
Stage C5: Fuel vapour recirculation pipe on canister purge electrovalve
Stage C6: Fuel vapour resuction pipes on canister purge electrovalve
Stage C7: Fuel vapour hose on air inlet manifold
There are 2 sections - Leaks by Area (Zones A, B & C) or by known cases in the following table.
Leak Diagnostic by Known Cases
Probability | Locating the leak | Zone |
Low | Fuel supply pipe on high pressure fuel pump | Coupling face - Stage B2 |
Low | High pressure fuel supply pipe | Inlet face - Stage C1 |
Low | Pressure sensor on the fuel high-pressure injection rail | Inlet face - Stage C2 |
Low | Fuel injectors on the fuel high pressure common injection rail | Inlet face - Stage C3 |
Low | Plug on fuel high pressure common injection rail | Inlet face - Stage C4 |
Leak Diagnostic by Area
Zone A - Timing Face
A1: Fuel Connection Towards Adaptor
Locating the Leak | Information |
Sealing: Hoses force-crimped on click-fit unions Probability: Low Possible causes:
Repair: Replace the fuel pipes |
Zone B - Coupling Face
Stage B1: Canister pipe on air inlet
Locating the Leak | Information |
Sealing:
Possible causes:
Repair: Replace the canister pipe on the induction |
Locating the Leak | Information |
Sealing:
Possible causes:
Repair: Replace the damaged low pressure fuel piping |
Stage B3: High pressure fuel pipe on fuel pump
Locating the Leak | Information |
Sealing: High pressure pipe distorted against the cone on the pump Probability: Low Possible causes: Incorrect tightening of the nut Access: Average Repair: Replace the high pressure pipe |
Zone C - Inlet Face
Inlet face - Injection system.
Stage C1: High pressure fuel supply pipe
Locating the Leak | Information |
Sealing: High pressure pipe distorted against the cone on the rail Probability: Low Possible causes: Incorrect tightening of the nut Access: Average Repair: Replace the high pressure pipe |
Locating the Leak | Information |
Sealing: Cone shape of the sensor tight against the rail Probability: Low Possible causes:
Repair: Replace the pressure sensor on the rail |
Stage C3: Fuel injectors on the fuel high pressure common injection rail
Locating the Leak | Information |
Sealing:
Possible causes:
Repair:
|
Stage C4: Plug on fuel high pressure common injection rail
Locating the Leak | Information |
Sealing: Force-fitted plug Probability: Low Possible causes: Incorrect positioning of the plug Access: Difficult Repair:
|
Inlet face: Fuel vapour recirculation circuit
Stage C5: Fuel vapour recirculation pipe on canister purge electrovalve
Locating the Leak | Information |
Sealing:
Possible causes:
Repair: Replace the fuel vapours recirculation pipe |
Locating the Leak | Information |
Sealing: Pipes force-fitted Probability: Low Possible causes: Incorrect fitting of the pipe Access: Average Repair: Replace the canister pipes |
Locating the Leak | Information |
Sealing:
Possible causes:
Repair: Replace the electrovalve |
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Marc
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Re: Petrol fumes from THP engine
Thanks Marc, that gives me a few ideas for things to check. I am still trying to establish a pattern of when the petrol smell occurs. It seems that it is not present when the engine is cold, nor to any great extent when the car is stationary. This makes tracing a bit difficult as the engine must be cold and partially dimantled to get to a number of the relevant components.
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Re: Petrol fumes from THP engine
No problem, I do hope it is in an accessible area Mike.
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Marc
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Re: Petrol fumes from THP engine
No luck yet isolating the source of the fumes. I did go as far as removing the inlet manifold to check the fuel rail and other hoses down there, but no sign of a leak.
I am now suspecting that the leak might actually be the A/C evaporator. The A/C is still functioning well. but we seem to only smell the fumes when the refridgeration is turned on (and the evaporator cold).
Out of curiosity, I tried to find the part number of the evaporator, but it seems that it is not listed as a separate part (you have to buy the complete heater housing), and it is not clear whether they are are available after-market (as there is no part number to search on).
I will visit a local A/C specialist who should have a gas leak detector.
I am now suspecting that the leak might actually be the A/C evaporator. The A/C is still functioning well. but we seem to only smell the fumes when the refridgeration is turned on (and the evaporator cold).
Out of curiosity, I tried to find the part number of the evaporator, but it seems that it is not listed as a separate part (you have to buy the complete heater housing), and it is not clear whether they are are available after-market (as there is no part number to search on).
I will visit a local A/C specialist who should have a gas leak detector.
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and lots of Rovers before that: 1935 Ten, 1947 Sixteen, 1960 P5 3-litre, 1966 P6 2000, 1972 P6 2000TC, and 1975 P6B 3500S - x 1752
Re: Petrol fumes from THP engine
UV tracer dye for AC, Mike - something that could be left in, and which you could detect yourself, if the sniffer doesn't find anything.
Chris
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Re: Petrol fumes from THP engine
Yes, but dye is not much help for a leak in the evaporator... I have checked all the A/C plumbing under the bonnet and nothing is oily. Having looked some more, it seems that sourcing an evaporator at a reasonable price for a 308 is a real issue, as none of the usual vendors list them.