Engine problem (was Flywheel problem and was Fuel injector 1.6 Blue HDi)

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Re: Flywheel problem? (was Fuel injector 1.6 Blue HDi)

Post by Paul-R »

GiveMeABreak wrote: 23 Jan 2020, 16:03Ok so P16D0 is recorded by the engine management ECU when there is a very significant engine under-revving or stalling caused by the driver using the double damping flywheel in an abnormal way.
Well I've found the laptop I want to use. Now it's just the VCI to find and then install.

I really should have done this months ago...
GiveMeABreak wrote: 23 Jan 2020, 16:03...and drive properly of course.
Pfft. How dare you! :rofl2:
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Re: Flywheel problem? (was Fuel injector 1.6 Blue HDi)

Post by GiveMeABreak »

You don't know how long I've been waiting to say that in general - now I can - Officially!

Not the most technical of answers, but true nonetheless!
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Re: Flywheel problem? (was Fuel injector 1.6 Blue HDi)

Post by ekjdm14 »

Brilliant, that saves a journey at least & the flywheel code might be something & nothing too :)

Was just thinking about that, my VCI isn't full chip anyway so would've needed to use yours even if you hadn't found the laptop! Hope it turns up & you can get to the bottom of the issue, you're experiencing the same feeling (should've done this months ago) as I was when our GTi180 decided to throw it's throttle body wobbler.

Between finding all the wires, diagnosing & repairing the VCI, getting the software to play nicely on the 7.57 laptop and finally deciding to use the 7.02 XP machine, a job which should have taken all of an hour at worst ended up dragging on for the best part of 3 days! Needless to say, I'll be keeping closer tabs on where I store my diagnostics kit from now on!
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Re: Flywheel problem? (was Fuel injector 1.6 Blue HDi)

Post by Paul-R »

Well I FINALLY got my act together and have a working Diagbox setup. After numerous attempts I gave up with trying to install Diagbox on an XP laptop. I bought a S/H laptop on Sunday with 32 bit Win 7 fitted and then installed ver 7.57, as that would be correct for my 2013 C5 (I paired a second key and the towbar electrics ECU but that's another story). Jim at Easydiagnostics thought it would also work on the 308 as well so I've left it at that level for the moment.

Anyway, doing a scan gave exactly the same codes as the Autel reader gave. Even to the descriptions (Damage to the double damping flywheel, Combustion of cylinder No 2, etc). Some of the ECUs weren't recognised (presumably because I'm using 7.57) and I had to manually choose what it was. This was particularly so for the Engine ECU.

So I went through them all, deleted the faults and then saw what remained. There are only two.

The first is one I hadn't seen before and is something to do with the dashboard. The error is B1003 54 Secure configuration fault. This is the COMBINE_UDS ECU and under properties it says:
Cause Local
Status Present
Characteristics of the fault Absence of calibration

I have absolutely no idea what all this means! And why is Status 'Present' here but 'Permanent' in the following error?

The second, and undoubtedly major, error is P02CF 00 Combustion of cylinder No 2. This is the EDC17C60 ECU and under properties it says:
Cause Local
Status Permament
Characteristics of the fault Correction of the quantity of fuel injected insufficient.

Interestingly the error concerning No 1 cylinder has disappeared so whatever is the problem seems to be only No 2 cylinder.
As I get older I think a lot about the hereafter - I go into a room and then wonder what I'm here after.

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Re: Flywheel problem? (was Fuel injector 1.6 Blue HDi)

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I don't have your VIN for the 308, but there is a recall campaign out for this engine (no details) and I'm assuming its the one below from your profile, So may be worth a check.

308 (T9) 5 DOOR ESTATE 1.6 HDi 120 PEF (DV6FC)
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Re: Flywheel problem? (was Fuel injector 1.6 Blue HDi)

Post by Paul-R »

VIN is in the first post of this thread. AFAIK the car has been back for all recalls. The most recent was last October with Safety Recall JMK. This involved an update of the engine ECU where, apparently, there was a chance of the car emissions exceeding limits.

The hesitation had appeared, in a minor occasional form, before that and was unaffected by the recall. It has just steadily become worse.

Interestingly, after clearing all the error codes the hesitation now appears to be less intrusive. In fact for a brief moment I thought it had gone! I haven't taken the car for a decent run yet and am unlikely to be able to do until we come back from France in two weeks time. We had intended to use the 308 (as there is only the two of us going down) but I feel that's a chance too great to take so the C5 will be used instead.

EDIT
I'm going to spin the B1003 54 error off into its own thread.
As I get older I think a lot about the hereafter - I go into a room and then wonder what I'm here after.

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Re: Engine problem (was Flywheel problem and was Fuel injector 1.6 Blue HDi)

Post by Paul-R »

Time for a little catch-up.

We ended up not taking the 308 to France and then when we got back lock-down happened so there was even less chance of driving the car. However, things are slackening off and I've borrowed a leak-off test kit to see if that shows anything up. But, how to use it?

I've Googled around and found this procedure for a Delphi system:
Connect leak-off kit to a warm engine.
Start and leave to idle for 2 mins,
Run at 3,800 rpm for 30s.
Let idle for 30s.
Run at 3,800 rpm for 30s.
Let idle for 30s.
Run at 3,800 rpm for 30s.
Let idle for 30s.
Switch off.

One post then says to allow any diesel in the tubes to run into the bottles.
One source says that ideally there should be about 30ml per cylinder leak-off.
Another source says that the maximum leak-off for any cylinder should not be more than three times that of the minimum.
Maybe both these last two parameters are not exclusive?

Another question. Am I right in thinking that this engine has No 1 cylinder at the gearbox end? I was also advised to check whether Diagbox displays results in 1-2-3-4, 1-3-4-2 or 1-2-4-3 format. This, so that I can make sure that readings there relate to the correct cylinder.
As I get older I think a lot about the hereafter - I go into a room and then wonder what I'm here after.

Inside every old person is a young person wondering what the hell happened.

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Re: Engine problem (was Flywheel problem and was Fuel injector 1.6 Blue HDi)

Post by Paul-R »

Lordy, what a battle this is. First a photograph.
IMG_20200615_153544345a.jpg
I had a look at the engine on Sunday and I couldn't figure out how to get the leak-off connector off the injector. I searched for the same type of connector and eventually found a YouTube video of someone changing "green tabbed" leak-off pipes. From this I worked out that the green wings have to be pulled upwards to release the connector. If you look closely at the photo you can see that there's a ridge of adhesive on the connector tab to stop this from happening.

So, today I set to work to gently chisel away at the adhesive, hopefully without breaking anything. Surprisingly I managed it although it did take about an hour in total. After warming the engine I pulled the tabs up and pulled the connectors out. I found that loosening off the air filter housing and pushing it slightly backwards helped with access. The YouTube video confirmed that No 1 cylinder is at the gearbox end and that the cylinders are numbered 1,2,3,4.

And then another juddering halt. The test kit didn't have adaptors small enough to fit the injectors! Looking at similar kits on Ebay none of them have suitable adaptors, Here's a photo (taken from Ebay) of this green tab connector.
0 Leak Off connector.jpg
So, tomorrow try some other avenues.
As I get older I think a lot about the hereafter - I go into a room and then wonder what I'm here after.

Inside every old person is a young person wondering what the hell happened.

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Re: Engine problem (was Flywheel problem and was Fuel injector 1.6 Blue HDi)

Post by Paul-R »

No further progress with trying to do a leak-off test. The garage I borrowed the test kit from reckons that it has fitted every vehicle they’ve tried it on and can’t understand why it doesn’t fit mine. They accept what I say but I get the feeling that they think I’ve done something wrong. Frankly, I think I may have done something wrong! This engine has been in production for about 7 – 8 years as far as I can see and is fitted to Fords, Minis, Volvos and goodness knows what else. It seems inconceivable that they haven’t had one in to test.

Anyway, I’ve now decided to give up on the leak-off test and go with what Diagbox tells me. I ran a brief test this morning, cleared the errors and (as before) am left with–

EDC17C60 Fault reading
P02CF 00 Combustion of cylinder No 2
Properties
Cause Local
Status Permanent
Characteristics of the fault Correction of the quantity of fuel injected insufficient
So what I propose now is to cut to the chase and put any money I would have to spend for a leak-off test towards the cost of a replacement injector.

What I really need now is the replacement procedure including torque figures.

Are there any items which should be replaced as a matter of course during the procedure?

I believe that the replacement injector needs to have a code put in to the ECU. This is the current No2 injector. Which of the figures is the code?
IMG_20200619_153111872 cyl 2.jpg
As I get older I think a lot about the hereafter - I go into a room and then wonder what I'm here after.

Inside every old person is a young person wondering what the hell happened.

"Trying is the first step towards failure" ~ Homer J Simpson​
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Re: Engine problem (was Flywheel problem and was Fuel injector 1.6 Blue HDi)

Post by Paul-R »

Paul-R wrote: 20 Jun 2020, 19:29What I really need now is the replacement procedure including torque figures.

Are there any items which should be replaced as a matter of course during the procedure?

I believe that the replacement injector needs to have a code put in to the ECU. This is the current No2 injector. Which of the figures is the code?

Image
Anyone?
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Inside every old person is a young person wondering what the hell happened.

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Re: Engine problem (was Flywheel problem and was Fuel injector 1.6 Blue HDi)

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Have a look at my post here Paul:

viewtopic.php?p=496576#p496576

This shows injector coding for the EDC16C3 / EDC16C34 ECU. I know you have a EDC17C60 Engine ECU that is also a Bosch, but the coding info should still be relevant.
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Re: Engine problem (was Flywheel problem and was Fuel injector 1.6 Blue HDi)

Post by EDC5 »

Is it just me or does it look wet at the base of that injector?
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Re: Engine problem (was Flywheel problem and was Fuel injector 1.6 Blue HDi)

Post by Paul-R »

Thanks Marc, I'll follow that link in a mo.

Yes it is wet and I think it's engine oil. Visible all the way along the back edge when I pushed the air filter to one side. I soaked up a lot of it with paper towels and am just waiting to see if it comes back - although it's not being driven a huge amount at the moment and may not be getting the miles it needs to show up.

I wondered whether the oil had come from a sloppy fill-up at an oil change (I've only done the most recent service - previous ones were by garages) but the oil was black. Not thick and caked though. Also, the oil level doesn't go down on the dipstick, which leaves me flummoxed about where it's coming from.
As I get older I think a lot about the hereafter - I go into a room and then wonder what I'm here after.

Inside every old person is a young person wondering what the hell happened.

"Trying is the first step towards failure" ~ Homer J Simpson​
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Re: Engine problem (was Flywheel problem and was Fuel injector 1.6 Blue HDi)

Post by Paul-R »

What's the part number for the stretch bolt holding the injector clamp please?
As I get older I think a lot about the hereafter - I go into a room and then wonder what I'm here after.

Inside every old person is a young person wondering what the hell happened.

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Re: Engine problem (was Flywheel problem and was Fuel injector 1.6 Blue HDi)

Post by GiveMeABreak »

If Item (12), part 1982 G5, (M8 X 125-59), £2.45 inclusive.
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