Is there a 'definite' diagnostic thread?

This is the place for all your Diagnostic related questions or advice.

Moderator: RichardW

User avatar
white exec
Moderating Team
Posts: 5248
Joined: 21 Dec 2015, 13:46
x 782

Re: Is there a 'definite' diagnostic thread?

Post by white exec » 11 Jan 2020, 21:22

Not often I look at MSDS sheets twice in a day...
ACF-50 contains naphthalne solvent and a mineral oil, which accounts for its penetrating and water-displacing action.
The company video states that it is non-flammable.
The MSDS sheet states Flammable.

Very informative things, MSDS sheets.
By law, they need to be available for almost every consumer and industrial substance/preparation which will be "handled". Just google "xxxxxx MSDS" for a pdf.

User avatar
Michel
Posts: 1723
Joined: 29 May 2017, 13:50
x 315

Re: Is there a 'definite' diagnostic thread?

Post by Michel » 11 Jan 2020, 21:53

white exec wrote:
11 Jan 2020, 21:22
Not often I look at MSDS sheets twice in a day...
ACF-50 contains naphthalne solvent and a mineral oil, which accounts for its penetrating and water-displacing action.
The company video states that it is non-flammable.
The MSDS sheet states Flammable.

Very informative things, MSDS sheets.
By law, they need to be available for almost every consumer and industrial product which will be "handled". Just google "xxxxxx MSDS" for a pdf.
I'd imagine it would burn if temps got high enough. I know it creates a lot of smoke while it dries off exhausts. It's very thick and gloopy.

Rhothgar
Posts: 999
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 01:21
x 18

Re: Is there a 'definite' diagnostic thread?

Post by Rhothgar » 12 Jan 2020, 12:49

myglaren wrote:
11 Jan 2020, 20:37
If you have a digital camera (mirrorless) you can view the remote on it, press the buttons and the camera can see the infra red light to confirm that the IR LED is working. Or not!
A phone camera will likely work too.
Hi Steve. Hope you are well. Go you still get to any rallies? We've not been in many years sadly.

Yes I am aware of this as I had the same issue with the other Series 1. I found the key for that yesterday but I've taken the circuit board out of it.

One leg of the IR Transmitter is broken and very much oxidised. There is no real way to clean it sufficiently unless contact cleaner will dissolve oxidation. I can make it contact the broken leg. As of now, no signal is transmitted hence asking I can simply put any IR diode in there and whether it will work.

User avatar
myglaren
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 16970
Joined: 02 Mar 2008, 14:30
x 668

Re: Is there a 'definite' diagnostic thread?

Post by myglaren » 12 Jan 2020, 13:00

Usually get round the rallies Roger but failed miserably last year, not a single one :(

Are the IR LEDs discrete components or surface mount?
If the former then I expect any would do. SM could be more of a challenge.
Not anything I have done and I have no IR fobs to be able to check.

Rhothgar
Posts: 999
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 01:21
x 18

Re: Is there a 'definite' diagnostic thread?

Post by Rhothgar » 12 Jan 2020, 13:41

myglaren wrote:
12 Jan 2020, 13:00
Usually get round the rallies Roger but failed miserably last year, not a single one :(

Are the IR LEDs discrete components or surface mount?
If the former then I expect any would do. SM could be more of a challenge.
Not anything I have done and I have no IR fobs to be able to check.
Discrete. I read up yesterday that IR frequency is anywhere between 700 and 1000nm. Of course, I have no idea whether this is critical to talk to the receiver. A 700nm signal may travel less or further than a 1000nm and I am not sure if this signal therefore needs to be in the same format as the receiver needs it to be in to receive it, if that makes sense.

We just point remote controls at TV and know they work if the batteries are good but how do they really work?

Rhothgar
Posts: 999
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 01:21
x 18

Re: Is there a 'definite' diagnostic thread?

Post by Rhothgar » 12 Jan 2020, 14:14

Just had a quick chat with my garage mate. He tells me all keys need programming/reprogramming but couldn't tell me whether frequency of the diode is critical in the operation of the correct transmission of signal.

I think I'll just have to sit out a cheap brand new fob on Ebay.

Online
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 18423
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
x 1745

Re: Is there a 'definite' diagnostic thread?

Post by GiveMeABreak » 12 Jan 2020, 16:53

They don't provide data on the component specifications I'm afraid - only on the frequency for the RF models, not the IR ones. I think what is important is the sequence of pulses - and maybe not so much the emitter.

Consider Infra Red learning remotes for example - My old Philips Pronto home automation unit learnt codes from different devices if not in the database, by you pointing the remote and pressing the relevant function /button and the Pronto would record the code for replication. So it would have to be able to receive info from a lot of different remote control units from all brands of different kit.

User avatar
white exec
Moderating Team
Posts: 5248
Joined: 21 Dec 2015, 13:46
x 782

Re: Is there a 'definite' diagnostic thread?

Post by white exec » 12 Jan 2020, 17:40

IR diodes (transmitter)
A quick scan through the discrete IR diodes (3mm & 5mm) in Rapid Electronics catalogue shows typical spec to be
IF = 50∼100mA
VF_typ = 1.6v
VF_max = 1.8v
Sensitivity ∼850nm

Plenty of devices there to compare. Just a few pence each.

Rhothgar
Posts: 999
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 01:21
x 18

Re: Is there a 'definite' diagnostic thread?

Post by Rhothgar » 12 Jan 2020, 18:44

white exec wrote:
12 Jan 2020, 17:40
IR diodes (transmitter)
A quick scan through the discrete IR diodes (3mm & 5mm) in Rapid Electronics catalogue shows typical spec to be
IF = 50∼100mA
VF_typ = 1.6v
VF_max = 1.8v
Sensitivity ∼850nm

Plenty of devices there to compare. Just a few pence each.
A spectral analyser is the only way to find out the specs I guess.

I'm not really into electronics so wouldn't want to blow the circuitry up. Presumably my existing key is still synced. Just thought it might be a simple job of putting an new diode in.

It's probably best if I canabalise two fobs into one. Been in touch with CitroJim this afternoon on FB and he may have some old fobs kicking around.

I've got the deadlocking workshop manual and that simply says you can switch out any one of the three main components. No reference to specs at component level.

Also trying to resolve a locking issue on the NS rear door. It's maybe broken wires in the door jamb but trying to decipher how it actually works when the description in the Citroen workshop manual is above and beyond is still outside of my intelligence level. It describes down which paths all signals take whether they are from lifting the internal button, using the door lock or the IR transmitter. Brilliantly detailed.

Rhothgar
Posts: 999
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 01:21
x 18

Re: Is there a 'definite' diagnostic thread?

Post by Rhothgar » 12 Jan 2020, 18:54

UPDATE!

Got the remote central locking working for now at least. I bent the corroded leg of the diode to touch the pin coming out of the back of the diode. It'll probably only work until the oxidation occurs again.

I can say that the camera on iPhone 6 will not record the IR working but a digital camera does. I always thought phone cameras would. I might try it with the missus' android to see if that can capture the light.

Really chuffed with that result. Thanks guys.

Rhothgar
Posts: 999
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 01:21
x 18

Re: Is there a 'definite' diagnostic thread?

Post by Rhothgar » 12 Jan 2020, 18:57

Android phone does indeed record it!

And there I was thinking iPhones were the best thing since sliced bread!

ekjdm14
donor 2020
Posts: 1760
Joined: 19 Jan 2015, 18:42
x 197

Re: Is there a 'definite' diagnostic thread?

Post by ekjdm14 » 12 Jan 2020, 19:12

myglaren wrote:
11 Jan 2020, 14:37
Not tried it as an electrical contact cleaner but I bought some Q20 from my local locksmith, who highly recommended it. Much better than the dreaded WD and protects from moisture ingress.
They were impressed when the rep asked for a bucket of water.
He took a light bulb and socket on an extension lead. Sprayed the bayonet and socket with Q20 then connected them, plugged the lead in to the mains and lowered the lit bulb into the water. The expected didn't happen, the bulb stayed lit under water.
DTTAH. YMMV.

Dunno about the product (decent as it seems, admittedly) but I NEED a pair of mole grips like in the advert!!! :rofl2:

User avatar
myglaren
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 16970
Joined: 02 Mar 2008, 14:30
x 668

Re: Is there a 'definite' diagnostic thread?

Post by myglaren » 12 Jan 2020, 19:16

I have only used it on locks.

ekjdm14
donor 2020
Posts: 1760
Joined: 19 Jan 2015, 18:42
x 197

Re: Is there a 'definite' diagnostic thread?

Post by ekjdm14 » 12 Jan 2020, 19:19

Oh and by way of apology for wandering OT, on the subject of IR diodes I would imagine that any generic item should work since the one in Sky remotes handles thousands of different TVs simply by altering internal codes so I wouldn't think precise wavelength of the light would be that critical.

speaking of TV remotes though, that is from where I would source my replacement diode since they're ten a penny and most of us probably have old ones lying about unused to be cannibalised for experimentation (or is it just me that squirrels away stuff like that in a draw labelled "may come in handy one day"? :)

Rhothgar
Posts: 999
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 01:21
x 18

Re: Is there a 'definite' diagnostic thread?

Post by Rhothgar » 12 Jan 2020, 19:30

ekjdm14 wrote:
12 Jan 2020, 19:19
in a draw labelled "may come in handy one day"? :)
I like that idea. More organised than me. I just put things down and then forgot where.
Jim may well have some spares for me. Be nice to source a brand new or nearly new case with key blank.
There's a guy in Leicester selling a couple of door handles, lock and ignition barrel with key for £35. Seems a reasonable buy and one way around renewing everything. Of course, donor vehicle is likely to be high mileage though.
Yes, thread has wondered a bit - never mind!