Is there a 'definite' diagnostic thread?

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Rhothgar
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Is there a 'definite' diagnostic thread?

Post by Rhothgar »

Sorry I mean definitive.

Was going to post this in the general forum for Citroen but then thought perhaps here is best.

I would love to understand electrics a bit better.

After changing the thermostat on the Xantia X1 yesterday I started the car this morning and was driving along and noticed that, since starting the car, it appeared that the alarm relay was clicking as thought the alarm was going off.

I pulled over. Switched off and back on and pressed the interior switch and disabled it.

I have a feeling that this new issue may have something to do with radiator water being flushed for a considerable amount of time over the wiring loom below the radiator?

Where should I start?

I think it was intermittently making some strange sounds beforehand. Intermittent is never good!
Last edited by Rhothgar on 11 Jan 2020, 18:00, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is there a 'definite' diagnostic thread?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Without specifics, there's not a lot we can do at this end - wiring diagrams are specific to each system, so are too numerous to put these up randomly. I suggest as you already suspect the problem area from the coolant flushing, that you start there (always disconnect the battery first - as the engine cooling fans can kick in even with ignition off). Check all the electrical plugs - remove and clean / dry these and then spray with some electrical contact cleaner for connections around that area.

It may be something entirely different, but pays to eliminate the likely causes first.

If you want a diagram for the alarm system, we'll need a VIN from you.
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Re: Is there a 'definite' diagnostic thread?

Post by myglaren »

Not tried it as an electrical contact cleaner but I bought some Q20 from my local locksmith, who highly recommended it. Much better than the dreaded WD and protects from moisture ingress.
They were impressed when the rep asked for a bucket of water.
He took a light bulb and socket on an extension lead. Sprayed the bayonet and socket with Q20 then connected them, plugged the lead in to the mains and lowered the lit bulb into the water. The expected didn't happen, the bulb stayed lit under water.
DTTAH. YMMV.

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Re: Is there a 'definite' diagnostic thread?

Post by Rhothgar »

GiveMeABreak wrote: 11 Jan 2020, 13:03 If you want a diagram for the alarm system, we'll need a VIN from you.
VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]

Also, are replacement keys available for the Series 1? Service Citroen seems a bit vague for a change.

The white LED in the end of my key is disconnected from the board. Do the LED's actually transmit anything? I know you can video them to see if they give off a light (or is that RF you can see?).

Be nice to get the remote locking working again. I see there are replacement kits on Ebay for sale. I'm not sure whether even wasting time replacing the clear LED is a good idea. I know my old '95 Xantia had issues with the remote locking I never resolved.
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Re: Is there a 'definite' diagnostic thread?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Those aren't LEDs as such they are the Infra Red transmitters. The part numbers for replacement key fobs are 649065, but are no longer supplied.

Be wary of ebay keys for Infra Red systems - most on ebay are for later RF transmitters and are not compatible.
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Re: Is there a 'definite' diagnostic thread?

Post by white exec »

Just looked up the MSDS sheet for Q20 aerosol, which lists its contents as
Q20 contents.JPG
Perchloroethylene - standard (non-flammable) dry cleaning fluid - "perc"
Kerosene is just that - mild lubricant and cleaner, and cheap
Propane-Butane - standard aerosol propellant

Will have a temporary tendency to cling, but likely not a lasting effect.
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1996 Citroen Xantia 1.9TD SX S1 - N707 MGP (Currrently laid up)
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Oh! and two Harley Davidsons - A 1990 Sportster and a 2003 Fatboy 100th Anniversary (the only vehicle I have owned from new)
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Re: Is there a 'definite' diagnostic thread?

Post by Rhothgar »

GiveMeABreak wrote: 11 Jan 2020, 15:26 Those aren't LEDs as such they are the Infra Red transmitters.
Are they replaceable or do they have to have certain properties?
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1996 Citroen Xantia 1.9TD SX S1 - N707 MGP (Currrently laid up)
2000 Citroen Xantia 2.0 HDi S2 - X435 JGJ VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff] (Clutch died Dec 2017 - Resurrected Easter Sunday 2021)
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Oh! and two Harley Davidsons - A 1990 Sportster and a 2003 Fatboy 100th Anniversary (the only vehicle I have owned from new)
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Re: Is there a 'definite' diagnostic thread?

Post by Rhothgar »

Rhothgar wrote: 11 Jan 2020, 17:38
GiveMeABreak wrote: 11 Jan 2020, 15:26 Those aren't LEDs as such they are the Infra Red transmitters.
Are they replaceable or do they have to have certain properties?

Just seen that they have to have a certain frequency. I wonder what it is.
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Re: Is there a 'definite' diagnostic thread?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

There’s no specification for these, but obviously infra red requires line of sight to the receiver, and can’t pass through solid objects as they are pulsed lights sent to provide a binary code.

I haven’t seen many of these nowadays for the fobs, there may come a point where you will have to do without that function and just use the key.
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Oh! and two Harley Davidsons - A 1990 Sportster and a 2003 Fatboy 100th Anniversary (the only vehicle I have owned from new)
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Re: Is there a 'definite' diagnostic thread?

Post by Rhothgar »

GiveMeABreak wrote: 11 Jan 2020, 17:56 there may come a point where you will have to do without that function and just use the key.
Marc, I passed that point ages ago. :rofl2:

Was just thinking there might be a fix.

Do you know if the receivers are actually coded to the key in some way? I don't believe they are but wouldn't want to spend on a new key from Citroen only to find it does the same as the one I already have. Ought to get a spare to be honest.
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1996 Citroen Xantia 1.9TD SX S1 - N707 MGP (Currrently laid up)
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1959 Landrover Defender S2 - Two owners from new
1968 Triumph Vitesse Convertible 2.0
1980 Ford Escort RS2000 Customer - 2nd Owner
1988 Saab 900 T16S - A 1980's exercise in understated Hooliganism...
Oh! and two Harley Davidsons - A 1990 Sportster and a 2003 Fatboy 100th Anniversary (the only vehicle I have owned from new)
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Re: Is there a 'definite' diagnostic thread?

Post by Rhothgar »

Just searching for one and a brand new one sold on Ebay last march for £15!!! A rare find I guess.

And in fact one 3 days ago for £20.

Funny how I always think of these things too late.

Just put a couple of new batteries in the fob and the red led lights so I guess that's a good sign. All I need to do is replace the IR diode with a suitable one.
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Re: Is there a 'definite' diagnostic thread?

Post by Michel »

Get a can of ACF-50.and liberally coat all those exposed relays and electrics with it - and anything else you want to keep from corroding.

Developed by the military to protect jet engine blades from corroding and airframe surfaces. Loved by winter bikers and caravanners. Spray it *everywhere* apart from tyres, levers and brakes. Leave for 24 hours, wipe off excess, never wash the bike again over winter. It'll get filthy of course, but the ACF50 creates a water resistant, rust-attacking, corrosion preventing layer. It appears to be an oily gloop, but is far more than that.

https://www.airpart.co.uk/page/acf50?ne ... _kwd=acf50

I've just slathered my bike in it today!
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Rhothgar
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1996 Citroen Xantia 1.9TD SX S1 - N707 MGP (Currrently laid up)
2000 Citroen Xantia 2.0 HDi S2 - X435 JGJ VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff] (Clutch died Dec 2017 - Resurrected Easter Sunday 2021)
1997 Citroen ZX SX TD - P788 AJL
1959 Landrover Defender S2 - Two owners from new
1968 Triumph Vitesse Convertible 2.0
1980 Ford Escort RS2000 Customer - 2nd Owner
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Oh! and two Harley Davidsons - A 1990 Sportster and a 2003 Fatboy 100th Anniversary (the only vehicle I have owned from new)
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Re: Is there a 'definite' diagnostic thread?

Post by Rhothgar »

Just a thought for the brains on the forum.

I'll have a few spare TV remotes kicking around. Could I simply use an IR diode out of one of them?

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Re: Is there a 'definite' diagnostic thread?

Post by myglaren »

If you have a digital camera (mirrorless) you can view the remote on it, press the buttons and the camera can see the infra red light to confirm that the IR LED is working. Or not!
A phone camera will likely work too.
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Re: Is there a 'definite' diagnostic thread?

Post by Paul-R »

My old phone camera would show the TV & PVR remote controls but my new phone (Moto G3) does not and I have to bring my digital camera out to test IR commands. So, check whatever you're going to use with a known working IR remote in the house first.
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