Hi can speed control fault be cause of temperamental starting problem?

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Well Dunne
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Hi can speed control fault be cause of temperamental starting problem?

Post by Well Dunne » 05 Sep 2019, 19:08

Hi guys. I'm a newbie to the forum and French cars. I very recently bought a C4 1.4 petrol. I had it for a number of days and on came service light along with speed control fault warning. I read in one of other posts that this is a known fault that can be usually solved with software upgrade. I got the car for a great deal and love it but now its temperamental when starting. It sometimes takes 3 or 4 turns (once even more) to get it to start. I'd love to be educated when leaving it in to local mechanic so I don't get burned. Apart from professional help sorting the speed control can anyone tell me is the starting problem related to the fault? Or could somebody give me tips on what it could be, and even better ways I could rule things out/repair myself? I hope I have described problem adequately. I think the car is awesome and don't mind paying a few quid to put it right. Thanks in advance.
Last edited by Well Dunne on 05 Sep 2019, 19:19, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Hi can speed control fault lead be cause of temperamental starting problem?

Post by GiveMeABreak » 05 Sep 2019, 19:19

You really need to get the fault codes read. There is no simple solution and you really need those to find out where to start troubleshooting - otherwise you may end up spending unnecessarily by replacing parts you don't need.

The speed control fault just means the engine ECU has disabled the cruise control and any associated features due to a problem. Once you get the codes read and report them back here we may be able to help further with the codes and give you some pointers.

Well Dunne
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Re: Hi can speed control fault be cause of temperamental starting problem?

Post by Well Dunne » 05 Sep 2019, 19:27

Thank you kindly, I assume I need to buy a diagnostic tool to get the codes. I'll look into buying one. Thanks again. PS once it starts it has no further problems starting again unless I leave it off long for it to cool down.

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Re: Hi can speed control fault be cause of temperamental starting problem?

Post by GiveMeABreak » 05 Sep 2019, 19:29

Just be aware that the cheaper generic code readers will work for some codes, but may not be able to help with the constructor-specific codes or read some ECUs - so just be aware.

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Re: Hi can speed control fault be cause of temperamental starting problem?

Post by Well Dunne » 05 Sep 2019, 19:33

Thanks can you recommend a decent one please.

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Re: Hi can speed control fault be cause of temperamental starting problem?

Post by Hell Razor5543 » 05 Sep 2019, 19:38

Easy Diagnostics do a very good Lexia clone, but it is not cheap. It has the latest rev C full chipset, so should handle all Citroen/Peugeot cars 9for vans you may need an additional module, which they also sell).

https://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/ ... hp?t=60113

You will also need a laptop computer running a 32b O/S (such as Windows 7).

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Re: Hi can speed control fault be cause of temperamental starting problem?

Post by GiveMeABreak » 05 Sep 2019, 19:45

Well Dunne wrote:
05 Sep 2019, 19:33
Thanks can you recommend a decent one please.
If you are in for the long haul and plan to keep any PSA cars in future then as above ^ and there is a discount for members here:

viewtopic.php?t=60113

But it can be a faff installing and there is no official support. So you could take a punt on a cheaper generic one for £20 and see if that does the job.

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Re: Hi can speed control fault be cause of temperamental starting problem?

Post by Well Dunne » 05 Sep 2019, 20:14

I appreciate the support. Thanks so much. This is first car specific forum I've joined and I'm very impressed and thankful. I don't know if this makes a difference but I've noted rather than constantly turning ignition off if it doesn't start to conserve battery life, that if I leave it turning over for approx 20 to 30 seconds it starts. I suspect something in BSI or ECU needs sorting. Thanks for all your feedback. I've read removing battery for 30mins resets certain things that need to be awakened in BSI. If I do this and put battery back in do I have to have radio/immobiliser etc codes? I can't find them in books I received with car. There is a card in service book for codes but unfortunately it's blank.

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Re: Hi can speed control fault be cause of temperamental starting problem?

Post by GiveMeABreak » 05 Sep 2019, 20:21

Use this procedure:

BSI Reset / Battery Disconnect / Reconnect Procedure

No need for radio codes if it is the original factory fitted unit. These are VIN-coded to the vehicle, so you only need to reset the date and time.

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Re: Hi can speed control fault be cause of temperamental starting problem?

Post by Well Dunne » 05 Sep 2019, 20:26

Thanks so much. You guys are Awesome. Its dark here in Ireland right now so I'll try that in morning. Thanks to you all that took time to reply. Much appreciated. 👍

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Re: Hi can speed control fault be cause of temperamental starting problem?

Post by admiral51 » 06 Sep 2019, 21:04

Hi and welcome to the family :)

I am a little surprised that i am the first to mention this but if you post your VIN ( it will be obscured and can only be read by admins ) then detailed info specific to what your car left the factory with, inc wiring diagrams etc can be provided by our resident experts :-D
Guessing it is a new ish model C4 as you like it, i have a 2005 C4 1.4 and it is a little bit sluggish to say the least, got passed the other day by a sit on lawn mower :rofl2:

Short stop start journeys will drain the battery in any car, think the suggested life of a car battery is approx 5-7 years so if you are unsure of age it maybe worth checking its condition. A failing battery will give multiple issues that appear unrelated to a knackered battery.
As for the diagnostic interface i have bought from ED and have not had any issues but i think ( happy to be shot down ) newer vehicles are going to Bluetooth and similar for diagnostics so worth checking if a low age vehicle.
If it is vintage like mine then i have had issues with the cruise control/speed limiter throwing up a Service/Speed Control fault. My issue has been resolved ( fingers crossed ) by actually using both settings, my good lady never used it and was left in one setting position, both off.Flicking between the 2 i would sometimes get a service warning etc, it would sometimes not move between the 2 on the display even though the roller had been moved.Constant use over the last 3 or 4 weeks and it is now fine.
Check the battery first :)

Colin

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Re: Hi can speed control fault be cause of temperamental starting problem?

Post by Well Dunne » 13 Sep 2019, 06:28

Thank you for your welcome and reply Colin. I took the car to a main citroen dealers for a full diagnostic. They said no faults apart from speed control showing up. They told me that Citroen never got round to sorting the speed control problem that most garages just disconnect the battery for 30mins and reset the ecu?? Your suggestion does have merit though as I do only drive very short journeys. 3 mins to work n back, working nights and sleep all day, and the 2 times I took the car on a significant distance I had no problems starting for a couple of days. The dealership charged me 90 euros to say Citroen never fixed speed control problem, then said its a 'process' to find the starting problem, offerng to replace a throttle sensor for further 60 euros. When I heard 'its a process', all I could think was its a process of emptying my bank account. I took it to my families go to trusty mechanic after this. The morning of bringing car for the diagnosis it wouldn't start and was rocking / shuttering quite bad, worryingly bad. It did eventually start and the dealers was decent drive from my home. My go to guy said this is a sign that the battery is past its best. I'm going to get full service plus the sensor replacement for 150€ on Monday of my guy. Im gonna buy new battery today (6am here in Ireland now). I'd tackle the service myself but I get very little free time. Will replacing battery lead to any problems regarding key coding etc? I wasn't given the code card with car. Coincidentally mine is a 2007 1.4sx. I never do any motorway travel etc so it suits my needs fine. I'm only bk on road a few months after a 15 Yr hiatus 😊. Should I buy the battery and ask the mech to replace it if replacing it can cause probs I'm not equipped to deal with. I should point out that once it starts it drives and idles fine so the violent shuddering was not a loose engine mount.

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Re: Hi can speed control fault be cause of temperamental starting problem?

Post by 411514 » 13 Sep 2019, 08:09

The speed control fault, and disabling of the cruise control, in my experience is usually caused by dirty ABS reluctor rings (integral with the inner side wall of the wheel bearing). From memory I think you can access them to clean them with a rag and a bit of petrol just by removing the wheel, or alternatively you might need to remove the drive shaft from the hub, can't remember for sure. I don't expect its linked to the poor starting/running; my bets there would be (1) coil pack, (2) crankshaft sensor, both of which are reasonably cheap/easy to fix.

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Re: Hi can speed control fault be cause of temperamental starting problem?

Post by GiveMeABreak » 13 Sep 2019, 09:58

Well Dunne wrote:
13 Sep 2019, 06:28
I took the car to a main citroen dealers for a full diagnostic. They said no faults apart from speed control showing up. They told me that Citroen never got round to sorting the speed control problem that most garages just disconnect the battery for 30mins and reset the ecu??
...Citroen never fixed speed control problem, then said its a 'process' to find the starting problem,...
It's diagnostic and troubleshooting time. If we had the actual fault code that might help point us in the right direction - but I guess you never took them up on the offer!
Will replacing battery lead to any problems regarding key coding etc? I wasn't given the code card with car. Coincidentally mine is a 2007 1.4sx.
No code required if using standard factory-fitted head units - these are VIN coded tot he vehicle - just follw the procedure highlighted above if ever removing / replacing the battery.
We really do need some fault codes to assist with further troubleshooting - otherwise this is likely to be guesswork.

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Re: Hi can speed control fault be cause of temperamental starting problem?

Post by Well Dunne » 13 Sep 2019, 13:21

Thank you for your reply Mark. I took the car to the citroen dealers to specifically follow your advice and get the fault codes. He told me there were none (apart from the one stated). I think I misunderstood him. I've never brought car for diagnostics before so when he said there are none, I assumed he meant literally, so therefore it must be mechanical. Did he mean he should reset the BSI and tackle each problem as it comes? . I feel silly now. I am a little prejudiced when it comes to mechanics or car dealers through being burnt before. I had been on duty the night before and tiredness and ignorance obviously led to me failing to put 2 and 2 together. I'm ignorant to the process and I assumed that the diagnostic would tell straight away what's wrong if it's electrical. I should point out that I did give a 5 star review as I was treated very well by the garage and I didn't look at it as money wasted, but rather money spent eliminating possibilities. He never said anything about reseting it, just that there was no faults showing and that its possible it's a sensor. (I forget exact name of sensor but it's a common C4 sensor fault). I thought I was doing right thing taking it to get a dealers diagnosis. Should I have asked him to reset the BSI and then check, or is this not what they actually do? Should the diagnostic not have gotten me fault codes? I'm going to purchase the Lexia 3 soon. I should point out that I'm a learner driver with limited auto electrical knowledge. I have some mechanical experience fixing my partners cars but never anything electrical.