Possible source for some hydraulic parts for Xantias
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- xantia_v6
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Possible source for some hydraulic parts for Xantias
https://www.drxantia.com/index.php/en/ appears to be a Turkish supplier of hydraulic parts who is attempting to get into the markiet of supplying after-market spares for Xantia parts that are now obsolete. Their pricing seems very reasonable.
I have no other knowledge of the company.
I have no other knowledge of the company.
- Stickyfinger
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Re: Possible source for some hydraulic parts for Xantias
Good find..........
Alasdair
Activa, the Moose Rider
3x C5x7 Steering racks and counting
Activa, the Moose Rider
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* 2000 Xantia HDi Hydractive
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Re: Possible source for some hydraulic parts for Xantias
Nice, would be great to have reasonably priced access to spheres here in NZ if you have come across them Alasdair?
Current:
*1998 Xantia TD Hydractive
*[2002 530i & 1995 Mazda B2600i Extra-Cab Ute/Pickup]
Ex:
1996 Xantia TD (standard)
1994 BX TZD
*1998 Xantia TD Hydractive
*[2002 530i & 1995 Mazda B2600i Extra-Cab Ute/Pickup]
Ex:
1996 Xantia TD (standard)
1994 BX TZD
- Stickyfinger
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Re: Possible source for some hydraulic parts for Xantias
Well....I think Spheres are VERY sensitive to QC checks/Materials...I would need to be persuaded to move away from "Originals"...I do however plan to start switching my Spheres to the modern Grey Pancake twin membrane types on my Activa using the conversion inserts available from Activa Club France.
http://www.activa-club.fr/ActivaShop/en ... coupe.html
http://www.activa-club.fr/ActivaShop/en ... coupe.html
Alasdair
Activa, the Moose Rider
3x C5x7 Steering racks and counting
Activa, the Moose Rider
3x C5x7 Steering racks and counting
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Re: Possible source for some hydraulic parts for Xantias
A translation of the ActivaShop's description of the item:
" Adapter allowing the installation of a saucer instead of a sphere connected by a tube.
The piece is inserted between the support with its arrival tube and the sphere.
The adapter is screwed on the original support.
The arrival tube, receives a standard Citroën gasket (seal, new!) And screws into the adapter, on the support side.
It only remains to screw the saucer (possibly cleared of its damper if it has one), after placing the square seal.
The piece is steel protected by colorless bichromation.
The adapter is used on Xantia,
- ACTIVA models for the accumulator sphere of the SC-CAR (located at the bottom of the engine compartment, left side, just behind the front hydractive sphere)
- all models equipped with the SC-MAC for the anti-sag sphere (located at the center at the bottom of the rear axle). "
The threads and mounting are the same on the two types of sphere, so I presume the adaptor is to provide adequate clearance for the larger-diameter saucer spheres.
" Adapter allowing the installation of a saucer instead of a sphere connected by a tube.
The piece is inserted between the support with its arrival tube and the sphere.
The adapter is screwed on the original support.
The arrival tube, receives a standard Citroën gasket (seal, new!) And screws into the adapter, on the support side.
It only remains to screw the saucer (possibly cleared of its damper if it has one), after placing the square seal.
The piece is steel protected by colorless bichromation.
The adapter is used on Xantia,
- ACTIVA models for the accumulator sphere of the SC-CAR (located at the bottom of the engine compartment, left side, just behind the front hydractive sphere)
- all models equipped with the SC-MAC for the anti-sag sphere (located at the center at the bottom of the rear axle). "
The threads and mounting are the same on the two types of sphere, so I presume the adaptor is to provide adequate clearance for the larger-diameter saucer spheres.
Chris
- Stickyfinger
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Re: Possible source for some hydraulic parts for Xantias
It is for clearance yes.....other spheres can also be switched to the "New" type as well.
REMEMBER
You will need a C5 type Sphere removal tool as well.
REMEMBER
You will need a C5 type Sphere removal tool as well.
Alasdair
Activa, the Moose Rider
3x C5x7 Steering racks and counting
Activa, the Moose Rider
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- Stickyfinger
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Re: Possible source for some hydraulic parts for Xantias
Alasdair
Activa, the Moose Rider
3x C5x7 Steering racks and counting
Activa, the Moose Rider
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- DrXantia
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Re: Possible source for some hydraulic parts for Xantias
xantia_v6 wrote: ↑25 Apr 2019, 03:43 https://www.drxantia.com/index.php/en/ appears to be a Turkish supplier of hydraulic parts who is attempting to get into the markiet of supplying after-market spares for Xantia parts that are now obsolete. Their pricing seems very reasonable.
I have no other knowledge of the company.
Hi All,
Thank you for sharing my web address.
I'm out here from now on. I came to help and benefit from the experience of other Xantia owners.
I am here and open to any question.
A car for the whole world = Xantia
Gürbüz
Gürbüz
- Stickyfinger
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Re: Possible source for some hydraulic parts for Xantias
Hello....welcome
Alasdair
Activa, the Moose Rider
3x C5x7 Steering racks and counting
Activa, the Moose Rider
3x C5x7 Steering racks and counting
Re: Possible source for some hydraulic parts for Xantias
The centre bore in that adaptor looks far too small in diameter not to affect the flow characteristics of the spheres.Stickyfinger wrote: ↑25 Apr 2019, 09:45 Well....I think Spheres are VERY sensitive to QC checks/Materials...I would need to be persuaded to move away from "Originals"...I do however plan to start switching my Spheres to the modern Grey Pancake twin membrane types on my Activa using the conversion inserts available from Activa Club France.
http://www.activa-club.fr/ActivaShop/en ... coupe.html
The area of the hole is much smaller than the combined area of the through holes under the washer valves in a sphere...
My question is why would they do that unnecessarily ?
Simon
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
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1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
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- white exec
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and lots of Rovers before that: 1935 Ten, 1947 Sixteen, 1960 P5 3-litre, 1966 P6 2000, 1972 P6 2000TC, and 1975 P6B 3500S - x 1752
Re: Possible source for some hydraulic parts for Xantias
Good question, Simon.
The four large holes under the sprung washers would rarely (if ever) be opened "full bore", but just partially uncovered by the lifting of the washer(s) - so maybe the drilling in tbe adaptor isn't too bad?
Easy enough to enlarge, if anyone wanted to do that.
The four large holes under the sprung washers would rarely (if ever) be opened "full bore", but just partially uncovered by the lifting of the washer(s) - so maybe the drilling in tbe adaptor isn't too bad?
Easy enough to enlarge, if anyone wanted to do that.
Chris
Re: Possible source for some hydraulic parts for Xantias
On the contrary, the washer valves would open on every large bump impact, as the large instantaneous flow rate would demand it - the centre bypass bore on a sphere damper valve (even the regular non-hydractive type) only allows for that very slow rebound characteristic speed. If you push the suspension down and release, the movement speed as it rebounds to equilibrium again is the flow rate through the centre bore only. Any movement significantly more violent than that gentle rebound needs to flow through the washer valves.
The valves and sphere pressures are tuned so that the rebound force is too weak to open washer valves (so a slow, controlled rebound in either compression or extension directions through that centre bore) but that regular bumps are strong enough to open the washer valves slightly - and thus can be easily absorbed.
It's not that it would't work, but it would definitely affect the overall response of the sphere somewhat and may lessen the ability to absorb large bumps.
The valves and sphere pressures are tuned so that the rebound force is too weak to open washer valves (so a slow, controlled rebound in either compression or extension directions through that centre bore) but that regular bumps are strong enough to open the washer valves slightly - and thus can be easily absorbed.
It's not that it would't work, but it would definitely affect the overall response of the sphere somewhat and may lessen the ability to absorb large bumps.
Simon
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
- white exec
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1992 BX19D Millesime hatch LHD
previously 1989 BX19RD, 1998 ZX 1.9D auto, 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto
and lots of Rovers before that: 1935 Ten, 1947 Sixteen, 1960 P5 3-litre, 1966 P6 2000, 1972 P6 2000TC, and 1975 P6B 3500S - x 1752
Re: Possible source for some hydraulic parts for Xantias
Yes, the washer-valves will open, but never more than slightly. Examined up close, the valve multiple washer stack is in reality an extremely rigid affair, never designed to be fully opened...
...but to be "cracked open", and then to spring back.
As such, they never operate fully open, as that would involve permanent upward deformation.
Chris
Re: Possible source for some hydraulic parts for Xantias
That stack of washers might seem extremely rigid to a curious fingernail or pocket screwdriver but keep in perspective the forces acting on it.
You have hundreds of kilograms of mass inertia of the car trying to hold the body in place, you hit a bump, the wheel moves and the body (mostly) doesn't, the suspension arm/piston diameter leverage applies hundreds of pounds of hydraulic force on..... a tiny little stack of spring washers which can be bent up with a small screwdriver, whose job it is to resist the rebound of the mass of 1/4 of the car body...
When you think about it it's quite incredible that a tiny valve that size can be such an effective shock absorber, especially when compared to a regular hydraulic strut shock absorber.
To get the best balance of ride softness and stability through damping you want the threshold valves to not open for rebound (in either direction, since you can get rebound from a dip just as you can from a bump) so that the rebound is forced to flow slowly only through that small bypass hole, but to open for bumps, even modest ones, so that they can be absorbed.
That's in fact how most hydraulic Citroen's are tuned from the factory, and I think this is somewhat unique among cars and only made possible thanks to the very soft spring rate of the suspension compared to regular suspension, and I think is a good part of what gives a Hydraulic Citroen that rather unique damping feel that most other cars don't have.
You have hundreds of kilograms of mass inertia of the car trying to hold the body in place, you hit a bump, the wheel moves and the body (mostly) doesn't, the suspension arm/piston diameter leverage applies hundreds of pounds of hydraulic force on..... a tiny little stack of spring washers which can be bent up with a small screwdriver, whose job it is to resist the rebound of the mass of 1/4 of the car body...
When you think about it it's quite incredible that a tiny valve that size can be such an effective shock absorber, especially when compared to a regular hydraulic strut shock absorber.
To get the best balance of ride softness and stability through damping you want the threshold valves to not open for rebound (in either direction, since you can get rebound from a dip just as you can from a bump) so that the rebound is forced to flow slowly only through that small bypass hole, but to open for bumps, even modest ones, so that they can be absorbed.
That's in fact how most hydraulic Citroen's are tuned from the factory, and I think this is somewhat unique among cars and only made possible thanks to the very soft spring rate of the suspension compared to regular suspension, and I think is a good part of what gives a Hydraulic Citroen that rather unique damping feel that most other cars don't have.
Simon
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
- white exec
- Moderating Team
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1992 BX19D Millesime hatch LHD
previously 1989 BX19RD, 1998 ZX 1.9D auto, 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto
and lots of Rovers before that: 1935 Ten, 1947 Sixteen, 1960 P5 3-litre, 1966 P6 2000, 1972 P6 2000TC, and 1975 P6B 3500S - x 1752
Re: Possible source for some hydraulic parts for Xantias
I agree with your description, Simon, but the fact remains that the washer valves never "open fully", in the sense that the large flow holes (two in each direction) are unrestrictedly open as if the washers were not there. They may crack open by a good few degrees (no idea by how much exactly) but never anything even approaching 45°, or they would surely become permanently bent.
Given that - the holes never operating "fully open", the drilling in the adaptor doesn't look too restricting.
Given that - the holes never operating "fully open", the drilling in the adaptor doesn't look too restricting.
Chris