C8 power Steering just stopped working.

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Re: C8 power Steering just stopped working.

Post by GiveMeABreak » 02 Apr 2019, 14:13

Of course, you can't ever be certain about the battery without a proper test - it's not something we can do on a Forum, but it tends to be one thing people overlook. Batteries really are an essential integral part of modern vehicles and they only have a finite duty cycle.

All modern vehicles will discharge to some degree as there are systems actively monitoring - such as awaiting a remote unlocking request, getting the car ECUs ready when the car doors are opened - all this before the engine is started. Then there are the systems that take a while to power down and write their data to the ECU's memory after you end a journey and switch off the vehicle (like mileage for last journey, fuel estimation, type of driving conditions of last journey etc., etc.), so these things happen in addition to the battery starting the vehicle and running all the electronics. Some batteries will work right up until they fail - and then that's it. So I would certainly get it tested if you don't want to fork out on anew battery straight away - but the fact that your power steering seemed to improve after a battery charge might indicate that it is unable to hold a charge as long as it used to.

The rear wiper may be a related issue - or indeed could be a short circuit in the tailgate wiring somewhere that is triggering the wiper arm - and again this could be a source of the drain if it is leaking current, so would need to be checked out.

Bunny
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Re: C8 power Steering just stopped working.

Post by Bunny » 02 Apr 2019, 16:08

Yes. Agreed.

I've arranged to have the battery tested by a local specialist firm in tyres, exhausts and batteries. They were the only ones who said they can test a battery then and there as all the others said they would need to charge it overnight. So am guessing they are a bit more clued up or geared up (or will just tell me it's knackered and needs replacing - regardless. LOL).

I just want it fixed but am nervous of it becoming a money-pit, is all.

Thanks for all your help which is sincerely appreciated. :)

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Re: C8 power Steering just stopped working.

Post by GiveMeABreak » 02 Apr 2019, 16:24

No problems - there is specialist equipment that they have to test a battery, but most tests take time which garages don't always have, so they can estimate the life. A battery may be end of life, but may still be able to start a car at -20 degrees - however that may wipe it out. As its capacity diminishes over time, it can hold a charge for less time - which can make it difficult to diagnose.

See what they say and then you can at least make an informed decision.

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Re: C8 power Steering just stopped working.

Post by Bunny » 20 Apr 2019, 12:34

I went to my local battery centre and explained my problem. They said that, because the Power Steering had worked after I had charged my battery but failed again, later, it was likely the battery needed replacing. They did not offer to test it and I felt unwilling to question their greater knowledge in asking them to. They said I could call back later so, as I had some errands to do, I left and returned a couple of hours later. The replacement battery had been fitted but the Power Steering still did not work so I asked for my old battery to be refitted – upon which I discovered they had already fitted my old battery to another vehicle (and later found my “old” battery was only one year into its three year warranty period). They asked me to call back again, as they were busy. When I returned, my old battery had been refitted although I later learned the securing plate had just been laid on top, rather than screwed home and the new battery was in the passenger foot-well and I was presented with a bill for that of £95 and had it impressed upon me that I must pay for it as it had been fitted (although not used). Not wanting a scene, I paid and left. It turns out that they had also date-stamped the new battery terminal a month earlier than I had bought it (unless it had already been sold and returned a month earlier, of course). Not a great experience, all in all.

Anyway, looking forward…

I spoke with a friend of a friend who, being a mechanic, told me he could not help because Power Steering issues can only be dealt with by authorised Citroen repair centres as a computer is required to set them up, if replacement parts are fitted. He may be correct but I can’t help wondering “even if only the pump is replaced?” On that subject, I’m having difficulties even identifying the pump as, having searched for such on the Internet, I can finding nothing under the bonnet which resembles the images I see of the replacement part in question. My best guesstimate is that the following is my Power Steering pump – please can anyone confirm this?

If so, after a reasonable drive (and lots of steering), would it feel warm to the touch if it was working - as mine remains cold?
PAS-Pump.jpg

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Re: C8 power Steering just stopped working.

Post by Gibbo2286 » 20 Apr 2019, 13:13

This is a C8 pump, I'm not familiar with the C8 but if it's located in the same place as on the C5 it's under the RH front wing forward of the under-wing plastic shield.

An electrical connection fault under there might be your problem.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/113531775041

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Re: C8 power Steering just stopped working.

Post by GiveMeABreak » 20 Apr 2019, 13:26

No, that's your ABS Block! :-D

Ok, so this is your actual power steering pump (the part marked as '1'). It is an electro pump on your model:
C8 Power Steering Pump.PNG
So what I would do next is to check the level of fluid in the power steering reservoir. (make sure it is clearly marked as the power steering one, not the brake fluid). The type of fluid is specific. It must be LDS fluid - nothing else on this type of pump.

Make sure it is between the min and max. levels.

Next you can try the bleeding procedure:

Make sure you are on level flat ground.
Start the car and leave it idling for 3 minutes. Don't turn the steering wheel during this period.
Next, work the steering slowly, going from lock to lock in both directions, about ten times.
Then switch the engine off and re-check the level of fluid and top up if necessary.
Re-fit the cap to the reservoir.

See if this helps any.

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Re: C8 power Steering just stopped working.

Post by Gibbo2286 » 20 Apr 2019, 13:48

Where's that hidden on the C8 Marc ?

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Re: C8 power Steering just stopped working.

Post by GiveMeABreak » 20 Apr 2019, 17:20

It's inside the front left bumper area:
C8 Power Steering Pump B.PNG
To get to it you need to:
C8 Power Steering Pump C.PNG
Remove:
  • The air filter box
  • The securing bolt (1)
Lift and support the vehicle with the wheels free.
Remove:
  • The front left-hand wheel
  • The front left-hand splash-shield
  • The air duct

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Re: C8 power Steering just stopped working.

Post by Bunny » 21 Apr 2019, 17:53

Thanks for all the advice which is really helping me.

I think I may have dropped a clanger in that I followed advice from a YouTube poster who said a solution may be to top up the Power Steering Fluid to 2 centimetres above the MAX line. I tried that but it didn't fix the issue and to compound matters I took advice from an assistant at my local petrol station who said that the "STP Power Steering Fluid" is universal and would serve me just fine but now I'm not so sure. Could I have done irreparable damage, if the fluid I used is not LDS? I can't find out whether the STP is or isn't - even from STP.com - image attached:

I did what you suggested in warming the engine and then slowly turning the wheel from full-left to full-right (I was worried I may be shreading my tyre treads as this car is one heavy beast) and then I went for a drive. The steering was very heavy but, as the journey progressed (only a couple of miles), it seemed to get easier - not as in Power Assisted but neither did it seem as heavy as it was previously. May have just been my imagination.

When I got home (I only have on-street parking) I had a tight space to navigate into. It took a while and suddenly, the Power Assist kicked in out of the blue and I was almost crying with relief and a feeling of triumph. I switched the engine off and got out to notice my rear wheel was literally just touching a yellow no parking line (and where I live, that equals a £40 ticket) so I got back in, started the engine and... the Power Assist had failed, again.

Pulling my hair out!!!

But encouraged, also.

I have no car engineering knowledge but a gut feeling (common-sense?) makes me suspect the pump rather than an electrical or steering rack fault.

Any more ideas? And any advice regarding the fluid I used and what to do about that?

Many thanks.
GiveMeABreak wrote:
20 Apr 2019, 13:26
No, that's your ABS Block! :-D

Ok, so this is your actual power steering pump (the part marked as '1'). It is an electro pump on your model:

C8 Power Steering Pump.PNG

So what I would do next is to check the level of fluid in the power steering reservoir. (make sure it is clearly marked as the power steering one, not the brake fluid). The type of fluid is specific. It must be LDS fluid - nothing else on this type of pump.

Make sure it is between the min and max. levels.

Next you can try the bleeding procedure:

Make sure you are on level flat ground.
Start the car and leave it idling for 3 minutes. Don't turn the steering wheel during this period.
Next, work the steering slowly, going from lock to lock in both directions, about ten times.
Then switch the engine off and re-check the level of fluid and top up if necessary.
Re-fit the cap to the reservoir.

See if this helps any.

Image
Attachments
STP_PowerSteeringFluid.JPG

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Re: C8 power Steering just stopped working.

Post by GiveMeABreak » 21 Apr 2019, 21:08

No you must not use that. PSA Groupe have their proprietary oils for their systems and LDS is a specific type of oil used in their power steering and certain suspension systems.

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Re: C8 power Steering just stopped working.

Post by Bunny » 22 Apr 2019, 07:20

I have already put some in. Is it likely to survive as I only put 2 centimetres in?
GiveMeABreak wrote:
21 Apr 2019, 21:08
No you must not use that. PSA Groupe have their proprietary oils for their systems and LDS is a specific type of oil used in their power steering and certain suspension systems.

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Re: C8 power Steering just stopped working.

Post by GiveMeABreak » 22 Apr 2019, 10:17

LDS is a specific hydraulic oil used in PSA vehicles. All I can tell you is that using the incorrect power steering fluid in a vehicle can cause a reaction, damage seals etc. Different oils have different properties and some cannot be mixed.

I would suggest that you get it drained and refilled with LDS - and hopefully the small amount you have put in will be small enough to not have done any damage.

If you are unsure about anything in future - you can always ask here before you take a chance - forecourt retailers generally do not have the knowledge and understanding and make generalised recommendations that can have undesired consequences. Always check your local Citroen dealer for advice or here.

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Re: C8 power Steering just stopped working.

Post by Bunny » 22 Apr 2019, 20:04

Thanks for that. I've ordered some LDS off the Internet cuz none of the suppliers around here have it (or they do, but they don't know they do - I live in the sticks).

Sorry to appear a moron but when you said, in an earlier post, the pump is on the "left", do you mean (as I suspect) my left as I am sitting behind the steering wheel or my left as I am facing the car from the front, with the bonnet up?

Please see attachments, below.


GiveMeABreak wrote:
22 Apr 2019, 10:17
LDS is a specific hydraulic oil used in PSA vehicles. All I can telly ou is that using the incorrect power steering fluid in a vehicle can cause a reaction, damage seals etc. Different oils have different properties and some cannot be mixed.

I would suggest that you get it drained and refilled with LDS - and hopefully the small amount you have put in will be small enough to not have done any damage.

If you are unsure about anything in future - you can always ask here before you take a chance - forecourt retailers generally do not have the knowledge and understanding and make generalised recommendations that can have undesired consequences. Always check your local Citroen dealer for advice or here.
Attachments
WhichLeft.png
WhichLeft.png (8.88 KiB) Viewed 52 times
CommaLDS1L.JPG

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Re: C8 power Steering just stopped working.

Post by GiveMeABreak » 22 Apr 2019, 21:54

The passenger side, so yes the left as when you are sitting inside the vehicle.

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Re: C8 power Steering just stopped working.

Post by Bunny » 28 Jun 2019, 09:14

GiveMeABreak wrote:
22 Apr 2019, 21:54
The passenger side, so yes the left as when you are sitting inside the vehicle.


It's all very odd.

It started working again, of its own accord. Very happy.

Then it stopped again, of it's own accord. Very sad.

It's very intermittent. I can drive it anywhere between one and a couple of dozen times without issue but then, out of the blue, I might have to drive it anywhere between one and a couple of times without power steering. :?

The power steering never seems to stop working, whilst driving - only at start-up but it sometimes (although rarely) will start working again as I'm driving.

I have no money to pay anyone to look at it. So I guess I'll just have to live with it. :(