Energy Matters Global and Domestic

[mickthemaverick]

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Agreed, the heat pump as you pointed out before extracts the "free" heat energy from the air/ground/water etc but for for 1kW paid for energy, the householder gets 3kW or more usable energy in the home. Of course a lot of that usable energy for us would escape through single glazed sash windows in a house when built had a heating system of 8 coal fires. Still no problem with ventilation!

Regards Neil

Very valid point there Neil, effectively the consumer gets 3 times the heat energy for the same outlay with a heatpump which is obviously good. My problem is the industry trying to claim the heatpump is 300%* efficient because of that. It may well be a 300%* more effective way to spend your hard earned but that is not the same thing at all!

*In actuality I was taught that a % figure is how many hundrerhs of a total are defined, so in my world any number over 100 is nonsense

[NewcastleFalcon]

I think this video gives a decent coverage of heat pumps from a how the systems work point of view. I've watched the video Mark linked to before, and I think Steve put it on the heat pumps thread. Safe to say the guy in the vid has a bit of a rant. I've watched some of his plumbing stuff before. In general though he is swimming against the tide. I expect a massive new impetus for the shift to heat pumps and incentives to speed up manufacture and installation. Right now very little is happening, but reducing the dependence on gas is now seen as an important and urgent strategic priority, and there is a massive amount of speeding up the transition to make that happen.

I have started the video 58 seconds in just for Micks benefit to avoid some misuse of the phrase "360% efficiency" which could irritate



Regards Neil

[mickthemaverick]

I have started the video 58 seconds in just for Micks benefit to avoid some misuse of the phrase "360% efficiency" which could irritate



Regards Neil

Thanks Neil, nice to feel considered!

[mickthemaverick]

Looking at one particular aspect raised in Marc's video another thought has occurred to me. The fact that the heat pump is far more effective when ambient temperatures are high, ie when invariably we don't need the heating on, makes me wonder if there is mileage in heat to electricity conversion so that it can be stored in batteries and then used when required. Not really practicle on a domestic basis but maybe on a town by town basis with large capacity heat pumps around the perimeter feeding batteries which in turn feed the grid as demand requires! Or has someone already tried that?

[mickthemaverick]

Thinking through that further and taking figures previously quoted above it would suggest that a heat pump consuming 1kW of electricity can produce 3kW of heat. So if that 3Kw of heat can be converted to more than 1kW of electricity it will run itself and send the surplus to the batteries!! On the face of that it appears to be perpetual motiin, a device that can power itself but of course it is not because it is relying on the thermal energy in the ambient environment. Where's the patent office?

[NewcastleFalcon]

Nice idea MIck, your "battery" wouldn't have to be a lead acid one from the Morris minor, or indeed a Li-ion battery from a Nissan Leaf, but a simple but smart water tank! Reminded me of this. Not quite the same. I've kicked the video off at the bit where he talks about heat pumps and compatibility with the mix-ergy smart water tank.



Regards Neil

[Gibbo2286]

When had my new Vaillant gas boiler installed (15 years ago) they took the hot tank out of the loft so before I could go for any of the proposed updates I'd have to get one put back in

[Gibbo2286]

Today fro Shell.

[GiveMeABreak]

We always try and go for a fixed tariff and were lucky to get on one last November fixed for a year, so at least have just under a year of no rises.

[mickthemaverick]

Today fro Shell.

Ok we all know the unit cost of fossil fuel is going nuts but how do they justify that increase in your daily standing charge for electricity? That is outrageous!!

[Gibbo2286]

They tell me that this is a temporary fix until the market stabilises and that once that happens they will again offer fixed price deals, my current deal doesn't end until end of April so for the moment no change.
I'll be shopping around again at that time.
I'm going to challenge them on the electric standing charge I do wonder if it's a misprint.

[RichardW]

That is the std, my new prices for Bulb are almost identical; the increase in the standing charge is allegedly to do with supporting the failed suppliers. If you haven't seen the new prices yet, then expect them to be almost identical to that. If you want a fixed price deal add at least 50%. And expect another 50% rise in October anyway. My annual bill is now £3.3k....

[Gibbo2286]

All the Shell chat line says "That's the price, sorry."

[NewcastleFalcon]

Pleasantly surprised at yesterday's coverage on Newsnight on the "Energy Crisis". Decent introduction to the discussion.

In summary. "Our" gas is a globally-traded commodity and isn't "ours" it is owned by the Companies who have paid the licences for and developed the gas fields to produce it. It will not be sold at a discounted price to UK customers, it will not ease domestic or industrial bills.

Click and it gets bigger but will not increase the miniscule influence UK Gas production has on Global Gas Prices.

Regards Neil

PS
The UK will not own the electricity produced from Wind Solar and Wave either, and ultimately will have as little influence over price as we currently do for gas. Its the way it is. Licences are sold at stage 1, and the eventual commodity produced is the "property" of the multinational companies, many of whom are partially or fully overseas state-owned. They are free to sell to the highest bidder.

UK is clean as a whistle, no state equity stake in any of the licence holding Companies whether oil,gas, or renewables, but trades potential lucrative future dividends, in favour of licence fees and for no development risks for the UK taxpayer.

[NewcastleFalcon]

The UK isn't unique in the "how its done" development of offshore wind farms. Auctions for leases/licences are the norm. Conditions attached to the leases affect the value achieved in the auction.

All over the world, those with the expertise to build out the desired capacity will be very much in demand, and to get your projects taken from drawings to production in the time scale you desire is going to be a very competitive market. The companies concerned can build these things in any part of the world they desire, and their greatest problems, are not in securing finance or winning lease auctions but in having to scale up capacity and secure supply either from within or from the companies producing the components.

As covered on the thread before, much of the gubbins for wind farm infrastructure comes from overseas, but agents of government look to ensure knock on benefits for local supply chains in the conditions attached to the Auction. From this article it would appear that a "the sale notice includes a 20% credit to bidders to encourage direct investment in domestic US supply chain development or workforce training programs – a first for the US government." That does translate presumably to lower overall direct receipts than would have been the case without the condition being attached.

US announces the first offshore wind lease sale off the Carolinas

No doubt one of the bidders will be Ørsted the largest offshore wind company in the world, and an example of a different approach adopted by Denmark, to that of the UK in offshore wind energy. The Danish Government own a majority stake in Ørsted, will suffer its losses of course, but also enjoy its dividends. The UK adopts an equally valid approach, takes a no taxpayer risk to development and no liability for company losses, but foregoes dividends and capital growth.

Regards Neil