My first Activa

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Skull
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Re: My first Activa

Post by Skull » 23 Jun 2019, 10:44

Skull wrote:
02 Mar 2019, 16:52

Had my Xantia HDi up in the air and had a look from underneath at my turbo actuator/arm on start up and it does indeed move a considerable amount maybe even more than 15mm so looks like I've either found another problem or a possible solution .......


Can anyone confirm whether the Activa 2.0 tct actuator for the turbo should move at all on engine start up like it does on my HDi
:?:

:help2:

I need an answer to this please ....

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Skull
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Re: My first Activa

Post by Skull » 28 Jul 2019, 21:08

Skull wrote:
23 Jun 2019, 10:44


Can anyone confirm whether the Activa 2.0 tct actuator for the turbo should move at all on engine start up like it does on my HDi
:?:

:help2:

I need an answer to this please ....
I guess no one knows then .....so I will be taking the Activa off the road :cry:

I have also had it into my Citroen main dealer but received very poor feedback to the problem:

Permanent Fault
Mixture adjustment


They did say it could be a ECU problem but wouldn't commit to a firm diagnosis and wouldn't let me have a copy of any codes or the job card - they offered to quote for an ECU but then never bothered to quote [-X

https://www.ecutesting.com/ offer a postal service to test / repair the ECU so that will be my next option ......

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Stickyfinger
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Re: My first Activa

Post by Stickyfinger » 28 Jul 2019, 22:41

Put a quick call into Garrett...they might know

https://www.garrettmotion.com/racing-an ... ce-turbos/

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Skull
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Re: My first Activa

Post by Skull » 28 Jul 2019, 23:33

Cheers Alasdair :wink:

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Stickyfinger
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Re: My first Activa

Post by Stickyfinger » 29 Jul 2019, 07:18

Also.....are you a member on the ACTIVA Club ..Facebook group ?

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Skull
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Re: My first Activa

Post by Skull » 29 Jul 2019, 09:45

Yes Alasdair you pointed me that way a little while ago but they all seem to have V6's :mrgreen:

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Stickyfinger
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Re: My first Activa

Post by Stickyfinger » 29 Jul 2019, 09:55

No they don't, they just wish they do :)

Ask there, I am sure you will get assistance.

admiral51
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Re: My first Activa

Post by admiral51 » 30 Jul 2019, 00:01

Skull wrote:
28 Jul 2019, 21:08
Skull wrote:
23 Jun 2019, 10:44


Can anyone confirm whether the Activa 2.0 tct actuator for the turbo should move at all on engine start up like it does on my HDi
:?:

:help2:

I need an answer to this please ....
I guess no one knows then .....so I will be taking the Activa off the road :cry:

I have also had it into my Citroen main dealer but received very poor feedback to the problem:

Permanent Fault
Mixture adjustment


They did say it could be a ECU problem but wouldn't commit to a firm diagnosis and wouldn't let me have a copy of any codes or the job card - they offered to quote for an ECU but then never bothered to quote [-X

https://www.ecutesting.com/ offer a postal service to test / repair the ECU so that will be my next option ......

If you paid for a diagnostic session then you must be entitled to a copy of it or how else do you know they did one ?

Unsure if the Xantia used the same engine as the XM but there is something about turbo solenoid valve on google in the xm forum, not registered so cannot see it but it is about the tct engine

what little i understand about turbo actuators ( my old C5 X7 ) then it requires a vacuum so at rest, engine off it should be at its lowest point, once engine starts it should get a vacuum and be pulled down to its start position so lack of full vacuum will create permanent issues i guess if engine is set up to have full turbo boost, so yes maybe permanent mixture problems, not on low engine load but there under heavy load, we have to remember that diagnostics now are very much different than then ?

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yannbeam
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Re: My first Activa

Post by yannbeam » 30 Jul 2019, 00:22

There is an electro valve that controls the turbo boost. There is a feed from the manifold (I think!) to the valve. The valve feeds the actuator pressure to open the waste gate and relieve boost pressure. If you are not getting enough boost pressure it may be the valve is jammed/sticky. Or one of the pipes could be damaged or blocked. On a traditional turbo the waste gate is normallly closed, but I'm not sure about the Xantia.

Edit!
The electro valve must be controlled by the ECU, so could also be linked to a problem there. Could also be the waste gate stuck open. Can you move it by hand ? The turbos used on some of the TD variant have been known to 'coke up' with carbon deposits, stoping the waste gate closing properly, and loosing boost pressure and performance.

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Skull
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Re: My first Activa

Post by Skull » 31 Jul 2019, 18:45

Admiral51

I do have a copy of it but all it says is:

Permanent Fault
Mixture adjustment

So I refused to pay £75 (@ £2.50 a letter) [-X

I have earlier on in this thread mentioned that I tested the turbo solenoid by removing it completely and I could hear it clicking when applying 12v and also tested that it was diverting air flow so I believe that it is working (but as yannbeam mentions I can't tell if the ECU is sending the signal to the Turbo Boost Solenoid). I also tried bypassing the solenoid with suitable pipe but couldn't notice any difference or improvement.

yannbeam

As you say I have also been told that the 2.0i TCT actuator should be supplied with pressure rather than a vacumn. The ECU is strange on this as it has a tube connected to it which is supplied a vacumn (or pressure ?) from a small tube connected between ECU and inlet piping (I believe this is an early version of what we now know as MAP / MAF sensors).

The waste gate actuator rod does move by hand and I've also looked at the inlet side of the turbo which is in fairly clean condition and rotates by finger pressure so I believe it's a lack of boost that seems to be the problem.

Thanks for your input guys I think I'm going to pull the ECU and send it away for testing ......last time I buy a non-runner though #-o

My Kawasaki GPz 750 turbo wasn't this much trouble :twisted:

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Skull
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Re: My first Activa

Post by Skull » 05 Aug 2019, 07:51

OK I've opted to have the ECU tested with ECU TESTING
ECU.JPG
ECU
TESTING £54 inc VAT and courier collection (DHL) +£12.50 RETURN AFTER TESTING = £66.50.

*REPAIR if required £300 inc VAT + £12.50 return after rebuild.

*LIFETIME WARRANTY included which appears to be transferable to new owner/s.

Do the case markings (bottom left) indicate anything :?:

Collection is arranged for today 5 Aug 19 .... [-o<

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Stickyfinger
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Re: My first Activa

Post by Stickyfinger » 05 Aug 2019, 08:29

Good luck....not a clue about those markings btw

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: My first Activa

Post by GiveMeABreak » 05 Aug 2019, 08:44

Some info I have that may be useful or not regarding the Turbo element referred to earlier. Note this is for a Xantia II 2.0i 8V Activa.

The engine ECU amongst other things does have control of the turbo piloting valve (turbocharge pressure).

The ECU (Bosch) pin outs are as follows:
Activa B ECU.PNG
"A": Identification of the control unit.
ECU connector: 55-way (37 ways used).
Allocation of channels of connector:
(1) Input 2 of the module MTR04
(2) Diagnostic warning lamp
(3) Earthing Double relay
(4) Terminal 3: Idle speed regulation solenoid
(5) Control: canister discharge electrovalve
(6) Control: Valve for turbo piloting
(7) Not connected
(8) Not connected
(9) Information: Vehicle speed
(10) Terminal 2 + Earth of the oxygen sensor
(11) Terminal 2 Knock sensor
(12) + 5 volts supply : Throttle potentiometer
(13) Diagnostic line : Line L
(14) Power earth
(15) Not connected
(16) Ccontrol: No. 3 cylinder injector
(17) Ccontrol: No. 1 cylinder injector
(18) Permanent +12volt supply to ECU
(19) Electronic earth
(20) Terminal 7 Ignition amplifier module
(21) Not connected
(22) Terminal 1: Idle speed regulation solenoid
(23) AC/OUT Refrigeration compressor operation relay control
(24) Power earth
(25) Not connected
(26) Sensors earth
(27) Ignition controlled + supply
(28) Terminal 1: Oxygen sensor
(29) Not connected
(30) Terminal 1: Knock sensor
(31) Not connected
(32) Fuel consumption signal (trip computer)
(33) Not connected
(34) Control: No. 2 cylinder injector
(35) Control: No. 4 cylinder injector
(36) Earthing Double relay
(37) ECU supply in (+) by relay
(38) Not connected
(39) Not connected
(40) Air conditioning demand information - Refrigeration compressor cut-off relay
(41) Air conditioning demand information (by switch AC-ON)
(42) Information : Position of the BVA switch
(43) Tachometer signal
(44) signal Air temperature sensor
(45) signal Engine coolant temperature sensor
(46) Not connected
(47) (according to the country where marketed)
(48) Terminal 1: Engine speed sensor
(49) Terminal 2: Engine speed sensor
(50) Coded anti-start
(51) Not connected
(52) Not connected
(53) Signal Throttle potentiometer
(54) Mapping of the ECU in question
(55) diagnostic line: Line K
Air Supply Components:
Activa CAir Components.PNG
Key:

(1) Inlet manifold (in composite material).
(2) air/air heat exchanger.
(3) Idle speed regulation solenoid.
(4) Air cleaner.
(5) Catalytic converter.
(6) Regulating valve.
(7) Valve for turbo piloting.
(8) ignition injection control unit (pressure sensor integrated).
(9) Throttle butterfly housing heating element.
(10) Throttle butterfly housing.

Special features:
  • The idle regulation is ensured by the idle regulation solenoid valve
  • Reheating of throttle housing by means of an electric resistor
  • The catalytic converter is fitted to the exhaust line
  • The oxygen sensor is located in the exhaust line, between the engine and the catalytic converter
  • The opening of the control valve is controlled by the injection ECU
Valve for turbo piloting
Function
  • The turbocharge pressure is regulated by the injection ECU.
  • When the maximal admitted pressure has been reached (750 mbars), the turbo piloting valve opens the control valve.
Activa A.PNG
Description
(1) Long adaptor (towards the turbocharger suction pipe).
(2) Towards control valve.
(3) Towards throttle housing.

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Skull
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Re: My first Activa

Post by Skull » 05 Aug 2019, 09:47

Thanks Marc

Just that schematic of the system layout is helpful and looks very detailed :wink: I really am working blind :conf:

Well I phoned ECU TESTING just to confirm a few things (they only list HDi ECU's for Xantia's on their website) and the REPAIR price is better than advertised on their website £234 inc VAT + postage back to me .....

What I thought was the main part no. 96 325 689 80 wasn't recognised but on the photo above BOSCH PART No 0 261 204 839 was recognised on their system. I thought that was worth double checking before incurring courier costs. They also confirmed current turnaround time is 1-2 days so finger crossed.

Alasdair I was just wondering if those marks might be from a 'ecu tuning shop' but the unit doesn't look to have been opened.

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Skull
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Re: My first Activa

Post by Skull » 08 Aug 2019, 12:10

UPDATE from Ecutesting.com couple of email/texts confirming receipt and booked in for testing before receiving the latest yesterday...

Due to the variant within your software on your ECU, we have had to send your unit to our other department for further investigation. This will extend your quoted turnaround time by a further 2 working days

.......