Citroen C5 X7 Windscreen Wipers

[GiveMeABreak]

Ok, so I've listed these in priority order, but as you can see it really points to the passenger side ECU / Motor which is sending faulty info to the master ECU on the Driver side according to the diagnostics.

Fault code	FF1B
After sales description of the fault code	Fault: locking of the windscreen wiper arm
Description of the diagnostics	Locking of the windscreen wipers (for more than one second) Transmission from motor to arm locked for more than one second
Conditions of activation of the diagnostics	Ignition switched on Apart from in economy mode
Conditions of disappearance of the fault	Disappearance of locking of the windscreen wipers
Down-grade modes if fault present	Stopping of the two windscreen wipers after they have tried to move
Switching on of the warning lamp and/or warning message	-
Main customer complaints likely	Stopping of windscreen wipe
Suspect areas	Windscreen wipers ECU Windscreen Windscreen wiper blades

Fault code	FF14
After sales description of the fault code	Slave wiper motor fault
Description of the diagnostics	Error on the position of the windscreen wiper blade for more than one second Electrical malfunctioning or overheating of the windscreen wiper motor (Passenger´s side) For more than 1 seconds
Conditions of activation of the diagnostics	Ignition switched on
	Apart from in economy mode
Conditions of disappearance of the fault	Disappearance of the electrical malfunctioning or overheating of the windscreen wiper motor
Down-grade modes if fault present	Risk of loss of wipe on just one or on both the windscreen wipers No wash functions
Switching on of the warning lamp and/or warning message	-
Main customer complaints likely	Only one windscreen wiper is working No windscreen wipe No windscreen wash Reduction of wipe speed (Over-heating )
Suspect areas	Windscreen wipers ECU Windscreen Windscreen wiper blades

Fault code	FF1A
After sales description of the fault code	Inter-motor communication fault
Description of the diagnostics	Absence of communication between the two windscreen wiper motors for one second
Conditions of activation of the diagnostics	Ignition switched on;Apart from in economy mode
Conditions of disappearance of the fault	Return of communication between the two windscreen wiper motors
Down-grade modes if fault present	Risk of loss of wipe on just one or on both the windscreen wipers The wiper on the passenger side is stopped in either the high or the low position, the wiper on the driver side continues within a non-collision zone
Switching on of the warning lamp and/or warning message	-
Main customer complaints likely	Only one windscreen wiper is working No windscreen wipe
Suspect areas	Windscreen wiper Wires linking the windscreen wiper motors [Master-Slave] Electrical harness between the following two components: Engine fuse box / Windscreen wiper motor (Slave) Electrical harness between the following two components: Engine fuse box / Windscreen wiper motor (Master) Connectors

[Sloppysod]

I have just had a quick read through this post and have become concerned that I may have similar issues..............in the future....! so as to try to prevent them from failing

Does anyone have a picture of where the water has got in? I am thinking of taking the cowling off and making sure that particular part (s) is (are) protected, or like the steering rack does the water get in via the output shaft?

There was a lt of talk about the cost saving side of things, cost saving is not just the cost of the part, but includes cost of fitting, cost of bodywork design as single linage requires an area to move. I think manufacturers are not generally bothered about a car failing after 50,000 miles or so, hopefully the people who can afford, it have already sold it and bought another, they simply do not care about us old car owners. (rant over)

Oh to rub it in, just about to fit a wiper motor & linkage on my Wifes Vuaxhall Corsa - £33 all in!!

[GiveMeABreak]

Hi Stu

Unfortunately, others have dissembled units and found nothing obvious like water corrosion, so have put it down to failing ECU. Having said that I was aware from research that there can be some water ingress - so depends. I personally have shoved a copious amount of zinc marine grease all around the wiper arm nut just to try and repel any water that might want to sit in there and do its worst.

[Sloppysod]

Good, point, I think there is going to be a greasey day soon, VERY, soon.

[sparksie]

Busy with paid work, so no chance to look at the C5 yet.
Weather has been foul anyway, so not ideal for taking electrical gubbins apart.
Reading the tables carefully, I notice the screen itself listed as a possible culprit.
Last time I was there, I noticed there is a small crack. It runs from the corner, right over the spindle, in towards the middle of the car, for nearly a foot, parallel to the bottom, before turning down and ending under the rubber. The wiper doesn't cross it and, even if it did, I can't feel it with my nail, so the wiper wouldn't catch it. Am I right in thinking this can't be the problem?
Can't see how it could be, but maybe somebody on here knows different...

[GiveMeABreak]

I don't think it would be the windscreen. The crack would have to be significant enough to allow water in and then it would also have to get into the wiper motor / ECU too - which it already has to be waterproof as it is exposed to far more rain.

This is a passenger side motor (new) and the arm goes into the socket covered by the yellow cap. I've marked some areas that look to be vulnerable - but I think in the summer I will be re-visiting both mine to coat them in marine grease as I don't fancy another failure!

[sparksie]

Thanks Marc
Had planned to look at it tomorrow, but some family issues have cropped up that require my immediate attention, so not looking likely now.
When I have it in my hand, I'll be better placed to have an opinion, but I think you've pretty much nailed it, based on your pic.
The most vulnerable place SHOULD be the spindle, which has to change direction all the time and never does a complete revolution. That's very hard on seals of any description. Much easier to seal a shaft that turns one way only!
It's not easy to tell, from the picture, but it would be sensible, given this engineering difficulty, to have a drain hole below the spindle and to mount the electrics as far as possible ABOVE the spindle seal, so gravity would be your ally.
I suspect neither is the case here.
More on this, maybe, after I've had a chance to look at one in the flesh.
Personally, I'm rather hoping whoever changed it earlier this year didn't plug the black connector in, very well.
Time will tell, I guess

[Grandmrc]

Hi Marc,

I forgot to return to finish the wiper tale....in the end a new passenger side was put on and that sorted the issue so had to return the purchased salvaged parts (Who agreed to refund my money....fortunately).

In total this little episode cost me a few pence over £500 but at least they are back working again. The battery died on me last a couple of weeks back too . Despite having very no issues previously I am now losing faith with the car, but I guess that's the way it is with anything once it starts to go wrong!

Another 'issue' is that the air intake pipe keeps coming detached at a joining point behind the main block. The car isn't powerful as you know but I had noticed a bit of a lack of oomph as if there was a sock stuffed in the exhaust and wondered if this might have been the culprit? On the other hand it could be me just imagining it

[GiveMeABreak]

Thanks for the update - yep, they're not cheap and that's why the dealers just replace the whole unit - flaming expensive things. It makes me thoroughly defrost the windscreen and ensure I 'park' the wipers in frosty conditions now, so I don't accidentally trigger them and put additional strain on the wiper motors! When I get in the car and see the wipers upright, it reminds me to go and loosen them and defrost properly.

As for your other issue, pop up a photo if you can so we can see the bit you are on about (probably best to put it in a new topic too)

[Darkcloud56]

Hi all,

New to the forum! Been reading a lot of the threads and see I’m def not alone on this one...
Recently bought my C5... everything worked fine then just as quickly the wipers stopped.
Another victim of the dreaded motor issue it would seem.
I have brought it to my local garage/autospark and have been informed by both that they must be replaced as a pair and that by replacing only one will not solve the problem. Can anyone please confirm if this is true as reading online it seems lots of you are only replacing one motor to solve the issue.
Obviously these things aren't very cheap so it would be good news to hear if only one is needing to be replaced.

Thanks for the help in advance
Pat

[GiveMeABreak]

Hi Pat, no that's not necessarily correct. They obviously don't understand the system on the X7. If you've read the threads you know that these have an ECU incorporated into both the Left and Right motors and act in a Master / Slave relationship. It is therefore essential to make sure the correct motor is replaced, but no, they do not need to be replaced in pairs - fact.

That is why it is essential to ascertain the correct wiper motor to replace and this can only be done after interrogating the system with a comprehensive diagnostic tool like Diagbox - which the dealer uses. I can't speak for other diagnostic tools. I suspect they are simply covering their bases as they know it's a motor issue, but don't know which one

Given that these are quite expensive, you don't need to be replacing both without good reason.

Normally if you go to the dealer and tell them, they will be able to determine the correct one and replace it which should be cheaper than doing both. The dealer will also be able to make sure they are aligned properly and undertake any calibration.

It can be deceiving, for example, you may find the left one playing up when in fact it is the right one that is faulty - and vice versa, hence the need for a proper diagnostic. Mine were going all over the place intermittently then getting stuck in the upright then going at warp speed and the like. I only had to have one wiper motor replaced.

[C5-NON]

I have x3 spare working wiper motors if you find it is the motor that’s gone.

[GiveMeABreak]

The motors on the failed units worked, just not correctly and in synch when they 'talk' to each other. In other words are the ECUs working correctly?

[C5-NON]

I should say I have x3 wiper units, ecu are built in to the motor units.

It ended up being the BSI on mine however. Hence why I have x3 spares trying to figure out which one it was

[GiveMeABreak]

Ok, yes, that's what I meant with the ECUs - one is a slave and the other a master contained in the wiper assemblies. Usually a failing wiper motor assembly will cause erratic behaviour in one or both arms. If they just fail it will likely be the 15A Fuse F10 or the BSI. I reckon you could shift those spares easily enough mind!