General upgrade for C5 x7

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vborovicfan
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General upgrade for C5 x7

Post by vborovicfan » 10 Mar 2016, 20:50

Hi there, here I will share my upgrade c5 x7 upgrade which started quite inocent – I wanted to have c5 x7 saloon , petrol car without infamous 1.6thp engine, manual gerbox, no hydro suspension but still have all those exclusive bits like massage. it seems this car option was never produced by citroen so I had to DIY(do it yourself)
even having a donor car on hand (2.7 biturbo exclusive2009 estate) it cost a forutne and took more than two month extencive job, and I still needed to buy/order many things all over the europe.. I will write my mistakes and findings which may help to others which wants same things. if somebody now would ask me to repeat this I definitely say big no.. but if I were back those two month I would jump in with no questions asked :D


Upgrades was as follows-
1) Change front light to 2011+ LED. easy swap with no modifications needed(may need to turn in daylight on lexia if its disabled)

2)Change back lights to 2011+. easy swap with no modifications needed (bulbs type a bit diferent)

3)Change back boot tailgate lapms to 2011+ easy swap, no mods

4)Change front boot chrome to softer Citroen shevron (late 2012, early 2013+) fits quite easy.

5)Change front bumper citroen shevron logo to softer ((late 2012, early 2013+) DOES NOT FIT, needs complete new bumper ,or at least old bumper need to be sawed to new chrome grill and repainted.

6)Change drivers airbag to 2013+ with softer chevron. There is no need change all airbag module, only outerior part/cover can be changed(fitting old airbag) with no problem.

7) Steering wheel changed to Exclusive steering wheel. easy swap, a bit tricky mounting.

8) Intrument panel- changed from monochrome yellow to multicolour. I was afraid of compability but- ALL intrument panels are interchangable- even diesel ones can be fit to petrol. no matter manual or automatic gear, navi or not. They even do not locked to car VINs, just be carefull do not instal intrument panel which mileage is HIGHER than BSI. (oposite is OK- it will take mileage from BSI) Actualy I didn’t expierenced any “zone not maped” after fiting navi unit which Mr. Borovic expierenced.
Also there is two types of colour intrument panels one marked X7/26K (which probbaly means 26 000colours) and another one X7/16M (16Million colours?) I also experimented with calibration revolutions –wanted to use diesel on petrol, but only up to 6000rpm valus were available, when changed rpm block it show wrong value, tried to calibrate by changing needle position, and rpm was more or less corect but car could not exceed 5500rpm. in short- if you want to use diesel intrument panel on petrol better not to change anything and just use it as-is. finaly I give up and bought petrol v6 intrument panel with 16M colour version.

9) ambient lighning panel, I changed entire panel, but only led plates with glass can be added to existing (there is predrilled holes for thet) they probably takes power from side lights, but I decided to do diferently -to feed them from adjusted diming source(it lights or dims together with buttons, feed them from cigarete lightning led) as voltage here was 8.5-3V (min-max) 1K resistor were too big to make this led lightining barely visible even in night- I changed resitor to 200ohms but still barely visible. then I disasembled both leds and change diodes to 3V type,same yellow colour and left 220ohm resistor to drivers and 110ohm resitor to passengers leds, diferent value needed to generate same amount of light. now on min dim it light almost 2-3 times more than on my ffiends original c5 but in normal intrument panel dim they are just like it was planned from factory.

10) Seats from non heated non massage cloth to semi leather with massage and heat. Together with them I changed entire doors interors with led lighning and moovemen sensors.
There the troubles started . even my car was from 2008-2009 and it had ALMOLST ALL wiring (exclude one ground wire for heating) I reserached that models from 2011 have very few wires-just amount they needs-only for airbags. so to mount heated, masaged seats need almost all wiring to be done-keep in mind this.) After fit all 4 seats(seat control module was under drivers seat) electrical moovement worked, but no heat, no massage no memory module worked.no new doors handles led(back ones lighted permannetly) also moovement sensor in doors worked. I have printed 230pages of citroen service schematic, but yet they was not able to make it work. the problem was solved by reading russian citroen forums. it seems that drivers dors/ window mirrow control module needs to be from exclusive. I didn’t bothered to change it(it seemd identical) and that cost lot of time and efforts. after I fit it leds lighning, sensors worked like charm (only two grounds needed to be mountened on both front seats)

11) central arm rest were changed from pastic to leather version from exclusive . those are two heights adjustables and more comfortabile.

12) I have looked but it was impossible to find central gear plastic with MANUAL handbrake painted in high gloos black as my new door handles, so the only way was to paint it in professional automotive service. they matched colour identicaly.

13) changed gear shift knob to citroen c4. when I bought car it actualy had this. I bought original one fitted and.. was surpsised how badly gears shift with original knob- it was too heavy and very unfortabile in town. I though I get used to it, but after two week give up and placed back citroen c4- car now again shifter smooth fast and predictable. very recommended change (and it even mache sbetter rneg2 ng4 chromed esthetic )

14) all side windows were changed to soundproofed laminated . easy swap( glass have diferent bottoms but its fits)

15) plastic black side trims were changed to chromed exclusive (it also seems all 4 doors trims can fit from estate version)

16)rear back small windows needed to be changed to exclusive chromed–its not possible to change only the chrome-entire windows need to be changed and it need to be cut from car – quite nasty job..

17) doorsteps was changed from pastic to exclusive (with metal inserts)-easy swap(same for saloon and estate)

18) rd4 changed to RNEG2 unit. everything is described in borovich thread extensively(need unit, screen, sreen wire, screen suplly wire, microphone, and witing from unit to mic)

19) during process of upgrade(when I already had rneg2 in place I decided to change from RNEG2 to NG4. it was nothing worng with rneg2 but I just did not feel good about not having volume knob. so I get COMPLETE set on ng4 unit, climatronic panel(don’t forget two plastic inserts-they needded to fix this climatronic panel after you remoove big pastic separating rneg2 from bottom storage box) GSM / MDS service module , Audio video IN/SIM box, also GPS,GSM, FM1/FM2/AM antenas and all wiring. quite a bunch of things. to be safe top on thet I bring whole front panel wiring and even all other wiring from donor car (25kg of cooper wires..) unfortunately some of very important wires were cust and with tester I was able to trace only 70% of wiring. its interesting that microphone goes not to NG4 but to the MDS module , and top on that speaker wires goes here as well!! a lot of new wires needs to be went to BSI (like airbag sensors etc- in car accidentevent module probbably calls automaticaly) so I was looking at all those 25kg of wires and remembering last two weeks front panel change and then getting BSI out.. suddently my wish to conect MDS dissapeared..
I installed NG4 unit ONLY and all functions works (except MDS,internal phone of course) the only(possible) bug I noticed that when I receive call I hear recipient only from drivers side front sepakers. not sure if its fault or ng4 should behave like this(maybe some ng4 owners chime in) - from RNEG2 I think I heard recipient from more speakers

P.S. after few weeks with ng4 I may say thay it feels way more solid/luxury unit than rneg2. due phone buttons it can be dialled faster for navi , the sound qality is a bit better and subjectively it fits better in c5 interior. I’m planing to buy another c5 X7 and definitely will want with ng4 installed. due age of ng4 I have changed internal hdd for new unused unit for year free functioning (same brand- toshiba IDE conection but a bit faster and with better shock protection- an exact clone with acronis needs to be done)
Last edited by vborovicfan on 10 Mar 2016, 20:51, edited 1 time in total.

vborovicfan
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Re: General upgrade for C5 x7

Post by vborovicfan » 10 Mar 2016, 20:50

20) other changed were non original and realted to audio and further sound proofing- doors were glued with bitumen pads inside, outside with 3 layers of variuos materials , also door handles were reinforced with eaditiona sound damping materials (now with Michelin Primacy 3 215/60/r17 tyres car seems absolute quiet, even more silent than my friend fathers jayguar- most silent car I have ever drove- this function is vital and it was primary triger why I wanted this car- from the factoty its already quite silent)

I did not wanted to add any amplification just wanted better sound from ng4. NG4 outputs about 4x 15W clean wats @5-6ohmsload (do not be fooled with all those 4x55w) and it really needs more eficient drivers.I have measured original woofers and they eficienty was 86db,also magnets were wery tiny - not a good thingfor low powered ng4 . but the main complaint was not the sound SPL but frequency response- I have measured cars frewuency response- a hughe peak at 200hz midrnage have a dip so sound is muddy and uncler in the mids. tweeters are also cheap plastic with Fs resonanse of 2300Hz increasing midrange clearliness problem. so I measured holes and ordered professional high eficienty beyma woofers -17cm mi90 for the front (which is 8x more eficient than OEM) and 8p300FE/n 20cm for the back. I though I fit them – few cm here and here.. when they arrived I made plywood rings and.. realized that I do not have enough depth in front!. I could do more height in rings and cut plastic in doors but then I would loose seals woofer from door . in short- I changed front unit to Visatn BGN17 – 93db vs 86 even its 8ohm (will atach measurements later with other photos) you ned to cut palstic to accept 145mm diameter. I also cut his whizzer . to support lowest frequencies 20-100hz I searched a lot and the best right size driver was SB acoustics SB17MFC35-4 –it has very low Fs 4 ohms and high eficienty. same procedure need to be done but its still can be fitted in plastic box. because I used it as subwoofer only I used 10mh/130uf low pass filter.
do not try exclude plastic box and build dedicated podiums- watter comes in c5 doors this pastic have “roof” which protect drivers from direct watter drops which can damage/offcenter drivers over time. to my surpsise in local audio shop I find original citroen tweeters(plug and play) with soft dome 29mm , those have fs of 1200Hz and the sound diferencies was like night and day comapring with originals. they are stil junk comapred with any 30eur hi-fi high end tweeters but much better junk . I belive they are from exclusive hifi system on c5 or other citroen peugeot car(will atach pics later as well) I intalleld them temprarily while waiting SB acoustic SB29RDNC-C000-4 tweeters (those are not plug and play and need work to be fitted) even without new tweeters cars sonic now are aceptable to my sound standarts (my ears are quite sensitive to quality as I work in sound industry and my home system have speaker wires costing probaly more than my car itself) – midrange is clear and textured ,I can hear phone recipient clear not muddy, also microdynamic of audio system is better and radio speech now have realistic timbres.

Now changes which I decided not to do
1) centalshift geat console change-its almost impossible to change plastic inserts for metalfrom exclusive (which actualy painted pastic) because they are permanently soldered to panel. as my car have normal hand brake there is no option from donor car. cars with electronic handbakes can change entire console, BUT NOT trims only
2) exterior chromed mirrors – I had them on my donor car but too much trouble and wiring for functions I will not use.
3) xeon headlights washers, xeon lamps, steerering rack with sensor for sterng wheel angle ,again too much work for functon I do not need (original non kseon light are just great)
4) tyre pressure sensors –same reason
5) MDS service block (read above)
6) Leather roof- same reason as a bove

No need to say car now looks, drives, and feels like absolutely diferent car. at the moment its in the workshop- now changing old catalytic converter exaust manifold to new original one after this will install new tweeters and this would be is last work and after it I would not want touch anything for at least 5 years! No way I can go trought this again. Unless I will born in next life as VBorovic :-)
p.s. pic will come soon..
any question feel free to ask.
Greets
R.

KP
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Re: General upgrade for C5 x7

Post by KP » 10 Mar 2016, 21:14

Top work Rolandos!!

So for the mic to work with rneg and rneg2 you need this Mds unit as well or is it purely for the ng4 units?

vborovicfan
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Re: General upgrade for C5 x7

Post by vborovicfan » 10 Mar 2016, 21:23

No its purely for ng4, without it ng4 do not have internal phone function. now my ng4 is wired the same way as rneg and rneg2 (mic goes directly to unit) and works with no problem.
in your case rneg to rneg2 i think you only need to place somewhere USB socket and just plug rneg wiring to rneg2 unit (and change screen of course ) and its done :)

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Re: General upgrade for C5 x7

Post by jgra1 » 10 Mar 2016, 23:03

good work! wow really ! :)

thanks for the write up

John

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: General upgrade for C5 x7

Post by GiveMeABreak » 11 Mar 2016, 02:15

Re. NG4: The 16M colour Display screen is for the Navidrive 3d NG4 - it is higher resolution (for the 3D Mapping and DVD playback).
Re. Telephone - Yes you should have sound from both speakers as when on a call mine seems to fill the car.

Too much pain for me - just bought the car with all the options I wanted!! :-D Well done though.

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DHallworth
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Re: General upgrade for C5 x7

Post by DHallworth » 11 Mar 2016, 02:33

I'd love to see before and after pictures of your 2011 facelift, did much change over the years? I know the lights changed slightly at the front but wasn't aware the rears changed as well!

That's a cracking list though, always nice to do stuff like that as it makes your car feel like your own car, unique in a way :)

Top work though!

David.

vborovicfan
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Re: General upgrade for C5 x7

Post by vborovicfan » 11 Mar 2016, 07:42

GiveMeABreak wrote:Re. NG4: The 16M colour Display screen is for the Navidrive 3d NG4 - it is higher resolution (for the 3D Mapping and DVD playback).
Re. Telephone - Yes you should have sound from both speakers as when on a call mine seems to fill the car.

Too much pain for me - just bought the car with all the options I wanted!! :-D Well done though.
it was not an option for me, as there was no such car configuration that i wanted.

as for screen- I was talked about intrument panel screen- where speed shows (not navigation screen) seems its three diferent instrument panels- 1)basic yelowish one
2) coloured 27K colour (27K silkscreen on the spidometer left/down area)
3) coloured 16M

beofre that I always thought its only two (1 and 2)


as for facelifts- there were two facelifts- first one was made on early 2011- front headlights ,all 4 back lights replaced and internaly there was revised storage below mp3 player.
the seconf one facelift were made in 2012 fron boot and bumper citroen logos have softer (and bigger) chromed trims, for this reason front bumper is new. also airbag cover have matching softer logo. citroen letters on the back changed (they also become smaller and placed in diferent place)

and there was " semi- thrid facelif" or actualy audio system rearangement (somewhere in 2014)when touchscreen navigation audio replaced older units. a folowing second storage apeared(still no decent cofee cup holder, maybe they will be in 2024 c5 facelif :D)

Image

vborovicfan
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Re: General upgrade for C5 x7

Post by vborovicfan » 11 Mar 2016, 07:45

here is front bumper boot changes. the two chrom parts costs 120 and 170eur respectively, but too bad lower chrome can be fitted without modification on bumper

Image

here is steering wheel citroen logo differencies

Image
Last edited by vborovicfan on 11 Mar 2016, 07:56, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: General upgrade for C5 x7

Post by vborovic » 11 Mar 2016, 07:46

@ David - You could've seen what you're interested in in my topic ...

@ vborovicfan - Like you've said, it all comes down to a personal preference, I like the RT6 more than the NG4, for several reasons, but mostly for its single din size (having the option of a small compartment below it) and its compatibility with my video input device. Regarding the speakers, I actually wanted to switch to the Hi-Fi, again, for several reasons, but my project is still not done, since I'll be doing a swap to better speakers and sound damping the doors from the inside (and some other customizations once the door cards are off) ... regarding the TPMS, I actually want to go through with it, just to prove that it can be done (with minor modifications compared to the original layout) ... I couldn't quite understand the difference between "front boot chrome" & "front bumper citroen shevron logo to softer", which is which?

vborovicfan
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Re: General upgrade for C5 x7

Post by vborovicfan » 11 Mar 2016, 08:06

Hi there, the upper(boot)chrome part is which mount on front boot.it can be mountened on older boot. the lower (mounted on bumper) chrome part is wider and it cant be mountened on older bumper.

as for speakers, I heard original citroen c5 Hi-fi system with amp. its just very slightly better (or more to say louder) speakers used in citroen(both simple and hi-fi) costs around 3eur/each while normal speakers drivers (woofers for ex) starts from 30eur to 500eur. so its really no fair comparission about sonic quality. If You want real quality you need mount custom woofers tweeters. and even choose drivers from home purposes ( usualy car woofers mane to be used with car amplifiers they have big voice coils, high Fs/low CMS and low sensitivity all this not needed with ng4 rt6,actualy oposite needed -small voice coils, very light cones etc)

as for ng4 vs rt6. when looking and features rt6 have more advanced bits bluetooth streming audio, losless tracks reading, rear camera option(all this except maybe flac files makes no sense to me) but..

1)comparing with ng4, rt6 boot takes much more time - screen is off around 5-7 seconds more when car is started (that means parking sensor beeps should be enabled on lexia to have parking warnings at the begining of moovement,unless you want wait)
2)sound of ng4 is slight better,less discorted (but probbably on stock woofers hardly heard) i didnt measured THD but its very likely have less THD.

overall surfing via menu is faster and more intuitive than rt6. after month with rt6 first minuts with ng4 (which I have never had) was very intuitive and now even driving I can change bass treble or other thing in just few seconds. with rt5 menu and buttons it took much more time.

before upgrade i searched a lot and seems no one never fitted complete(with MDS module) ng4 set to non ng4 factory fitted car. there was one perosn which wanted but after realising what changes need to be done he cooled down. this requires change of ALL front panel wiring - means all car fornt panel area much be stripped(not only panel but ALL front area)

if i knew that before changing my front panel (when it was taken off) i maybe would risk to change it(i had complete wirings) but after I just did not wanted to repeat this. so the only clever/cost efective option to run ng4 on non factory ng4 fitted car is without MDS box and with snmall bug that phone recipient is heard from the drivers side speakers(and of course lack of internal phone)




as for space below rt6 IMHO its only beneficial when there is 2011 facelifted version of that copartament (without doors) then its really great place to hold phone. but wth that doors I have never bothered to put anyging inside too much trouble closing openeninand i kept phone on chest pocket.
Last edited by vborovicfan on 11 Mar 2016, 08:40, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: General upgrade for C5 x7

Post by vborovic » 11 Mar 2016, 08:18

I've actually swapped the lower chrome on my car (the upper - boot part was also done), the newer bumper is slightly different in that regard, but only slightly ... hard to notice there's physically incompatibility between my car's refreshed look and the genuine redesigned newer car's look ... regarding the sound, I've managed to tumble upon a C5 X7 Hi-Fi amp (one of the most rare used items available - who in their right mind cuts something like that out of a car ... :D ), that's why I've decided to give it a go ... I'm not looking at making a $10000 sound quality system with existing hardware, but to try and make the most out of it (the original speakers are in most cases "carton" class) ... since you did the door speakers, did you confirm that their diameter is 165 mm? I've yet to get to that, but would be good to know in advance.

vborovicfan
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Re: General upgrade for C5 x7

Post by vborovicfan » 11 Mar 2016, 08:50

vborovic wrote:I've actually swapped the lower chrome on my car (the upper - boot part was also done), the newer bumper is slightly different in that regard, but only slightly ... hard to notice there's physically incompatibility between my car's refreshed look and the genuine redesigned newer car's look ... regarding the sound, I've managed to tumble upon a C5 X7 Hi-Fi amp (one of the most rare used items available - who in their right mind cuts something like that out of a car ... :D ), that's why I've decided to give it a go ... I'm not looking at making a $10000 sound quality system with existing hardware, but to try and make the most out of it (the original speakers are in most cases "carton" class) ... since you did the door speakers, did you confirm that their diameter is 165 mm? I've yet to get to that, but would be good to know in advance.
hm.. are we talking about same things? maybe you talking about that low chrome (near bottom)? I talka bout front boot (bonnet) and front bumper

so if you are talking about that double chrome lines forming citroern logo the diferencies is not minor and it requires to cut bumper make new lines and repaint it .

as for speakers width its somehting like 165mm(6.5inch is exactly the same size as oem drivers) but acutlay its not important .what is more important that INTERNAL width is 143mm when ALL 6.5inch normal woofers have internal depth 144-145. that measn they wil not fit. you have to grind plastic for few milimeters. also depth of 6.5inch speaker can not be more than 55mm(preferably less) it shoudl be shallow. this automaticaly prevent frm using very high quality drivers with hughe magnets. I will upload photos from my phone later about this mods. the best driver which still can be fitted (with some modifications is this http://www.beyma.com/products/lowmidfrequency/10605ND8

its purely midrange (you need to suport lower frequencies with back doors drivers) but its eficienty is such scale (98-100db) that with your rt6 sound will be much louder cleaner than with best 4x200W car amplifier with medium priced car woofers. as I said its not about the power its about eficienty /sensitivity in car audiosystem..

it wont hurt if you put hifi amp. but bottleneck is woofers and tweeters in this case.

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Re: General upgrade for C5 x7

Post by vborovic » 11 Mar 2016, 09:05

This is how my car looked like (pre-face lift):

Image

After changing the chromed bumper parts:

Image

So, what's the issue?

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Re: General upgrade for C5 x7

Post by vborovic » 11 Mar 2016, 09:09

Regarding the speakers, I was looking at Hertz, nothing grand, a pair of speakers in the 100-150 EUR price range ... doesn't make sense to invest more, since the input device isn't of higher quality ... and for the rear doors, I'd put speakers with included tweeters (simpler solution than changing the door cards to get the tweeter location mesh/opening near the door handle)