Car jumping out of 5th gear and now unable to select it

[Peter.N.]

Its not necessary to drop the box, just remove the inner wing liner and take the end plate off, all the 5th gear mechanism is in the extension section that they fitted when the converted the 4 speed boxes to 5 speed. You may have a problem with the selector shaft but I managed to do mine in situ although it was a long tome ago and I don't remember the details.

The average garage probably won't be interested in repairing the box only fitting another so you need to find a decent back street garage.

Peter

[RichardW]

As Peter says, there is no need to remove the box - the end cover can be removed from under the wing. Some of the oil will run out I expect, so it could be worth dropping the oil. There used to be a cit specialist in Stockport, and depending on where you are in Manchester, Lighty's place at Ilkeston is not that far away (http://www.marklightfootltd.co.uk/)

[tomthered]

Richard you are probably referring to Paris Autos. Have phoned them but only to seek advice, explained the issue but they were on about 3 days work which didn't bode well!! Shame I don't live near Ilkeston, my sister lives in Trowel next one on so could probably try and arrange something. Would they do that?

Just checked and seen that its right near Tesco, have been past there loads of times!!

[tomthered]

Hi Richard - I have found a picture of a Gearbox on Ebay showing the end plate and I see what you mean. Have asked someone who says they may look at i,t but thinks it will take 2 hours. Anyway, it if was just the nut would that be available or could I buy it from somewhere? If it was a gear or synchro thing could that be bought and replaced?

[RichardW]

Tom,

The nut is available from Citroen - but if it's just come loose, then I would just put some threadlock on it, tighten it up and re-stake it. If the synchro is damaged, then it may be possible to turn it over - I did a search and this seems to be a common problem on motorhomes fitted with this box - and in those cases, the gear is usually broken. You can buy a new gear set from Citroen, but it's not cheap....

Part Number Description Quantity Price excl. VAT Price incl. VAT Total incl. VAT Selection
00002344F5 PINION ASSEMBLY 141.91 GBP 170.29 GBP 170.29 GBP

0000230459 SHAFT FIX NUT 1.77 GBP 2.12 GBP 2.12 GBP

0000230481 SHAFT FIX NUT 3.19 GBP 3.83 GBP 3.83 GBP

0000232119 SYNCHRO HUB 21.12 GBP 25.34 GBP 25.34 GBP

0000233933 GEAR SPACER 4.16 GBP 4.99 GBP 4.99 GBP

0000238832 SYNCHRONIZER 119.67 GBP 143.60 GBP 143.60 GBP

Total excl. VAT 291.82 GBP
Total incl. VAT 350.17 GBP

Depending on which parts are broken of course....! Looks like you can get the parts for about 1/2 that on ebay - eg This one - not necessarily the exact kit, but the vendor sounds like they will be able to find the right one!

Dropping the box on this engine is a bit of PITA as the CAT has to come out, which means removing the radiator probably....

[tomthered]

So cheaper to go the replacement second hand gearbox route if more than the nut needs replacing? I assume its the Shaft Fix Nut that needs refixing? It seems a rip off for such a small piece of metal!! Have been quoted about half a day from a two man mobile team. That compares with the 5 man hours that somebody else said.

Do you actually need all them parts, if the Synchro has gone would you not just replace the hub at £25?

Would it just be a question of pulling so many off and replacing them with the new ones?

[RichardW]

2nd hand box might be cheaper, but it might also be the same.... In theory yes, you can just replace the broken bit(s), but there might be a bit of a mismatch between parts so it might whine when back together. If you can source a box for not too much money, then the most cost effective plan is probably just to swap the whole 5th gear assembly over. If you were DIYing it then you could strip the cover off, find out what parts needed, procure said parts, and then rebuild, but that might not impress someone else having it blocking their ramp!

[tomthered]

Richard would the Gearbox from a 110 BHP model be the same as a 90 bhp model? Reason I ask is I have seen one advertised with my code of DP29 but it says its off a 110bhp model, which confuses me or is it just the power in the engine?

[RichardW]

It would appear that the 110 used a different box (DM62) vs the 90 (20DP29). If you mean this one then 20DP29 is clearly stamped on the box, and I would treat what the seller says about the engine it was mated to with some scepticism! Looks like the 110 version has a longer final drive (and possibly taller 5th) - it would work on a 90 I would expect but it would be a bit slower to get up to speed.

[tomthered]

Thanks for the quick reply and everyones posts have been very informative. It looks easy to take off that end plate but I bet its a PITA!! Its frustrating I cannot do it myself but I will try and hopefully get someone to do it. Just cannot get it done until weekend after next!!

So what you are suggesting is source a second hand gearbox and swap the whole fifth gear assembly across, is that easy to do whilst still in the car?, I know the extension bit looks small; Is that all that holds the fifth gear assembley in place? That's assuming its not just the nut that needs replacing or refixing.

[xantia_v6]

Be wary of any non-identical swap that may change the ratios, as the engine ECU knows the input and output speed of the gearbox and may not be happy if the ratios are not to spec.

[tomthered]

@Xantia_v6 I intend getting the one that has DP29 on as it says thats the correct one on Service Citroen. I just wanted to ask as the guy said it had DP29 on it, which seemed weird as he said it was from a 110 bhp model, which is why I questioned it.

The easiest option does seem to be get a gearbox and replace the gears and synchro stuff. Are these just held on by that locking nut and thats it? I notice two locking nuts were mentioned, so I assume one tightens it up and the other acts as a safeguard locking nut? Anyone know compared to a gearbox change timewise?

Could I safaly assume about two hours to access the back plate and remove the stuff and replace or is that too easy? I would assume thats easier than dropping the gearbox but do not know what room there is at the back of the gearbox to facilitate this?

[RichardW]

2 shafts hence 2 nuts:



There's a selector fork in there somewhere as well that will need to be removed probably to get the gears off.

It should be possible to remove the end cover in place - worse case scenario is that there is not enough room under the chassis rail, and the box mount has to be undone and dropped slightly. This should be significantly quicker than replacing the whole box. Hopefully, you will find that the nut on the shaft is loose allowing the synchro unit to float about, and that all that is required is to tighten it up.

[tomthered]

Richard is the gear wheel on its own shaft the 5th gear, thick question but I know nothing about cars! The other thought was if its now impossible to get 5th gear could it still be floating about on the shaft or could it have fallen off??

[tomthered]

It would appear that the 110 used a different box (DM62) vs the 90 (20DP29). If you mean this one then 20DP29 is clearly stamped on the box, and I would treat what the seller says about the engine it was mated to with some scepticism! Looks like the 110 version has a longer final drive (and possibly taller 5th) - it would work on a 90 I would expect but it would be a bit slower to get up to speed.

Richard are you saying this box might be suitable for me or steer well clear?