Zel's Fleet Blog - Xantia Activa, Lada Riva, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D, AC Model 70.

Tell us your ongoing tales and experiences with your French car here. Post pictures of your car here as well.

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Gibbo2286
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Xantia Activa, Lada Riva, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D, AC Model 70.

Post by Gibbo2286 » 17 Aug 2019, 09:32

Your tail pipe incident isn't the first I've came across, one of my customers felt a bump, the guy in the car behind got out and apologised for shunting him, they looked around the cars and could see no damage, shook hands and the 'shunter' drove off.

My customer got back in his car and started it, there was an almighty roaring noise from under the bonnet, the cast iron exhaust manifold flange was snapped off.

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Zelandeth
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Xantia Activa, Lada Riva, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D, AC Model 70.

Post by Zelandeth » 17 Aug 2019, 20:39

Definitely struggling with the spray gun a bit. I don't seem to be able to get any sort of a wet edge laid down no matter what I've done with the settings and the paint doesn't seem to be atomising all that well, hence the pebbly texture we seem to be getting most of the time.

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When covering other colours (like the grey primer on the roof front edge) it was immediately apparent how thinly the paint was going on too. I did a little experimentation with thinners and found that I could get a decently "wet" spray - but at such a point that the paint was watered down to the extent I wound up with odd effects where the pigment had run...so not really a solution.

I think the £18 spray gun may need to be eyed as a possible contributor to these issues...I don't think air supply is an issue as I've verified I've got suitable pressure at the delivery point (not just shown on the regulator).

Every now and then it will sputter for a second then give me a few seconds of actually decent spray...so there are some spots where things are actually glossy.

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Bit frustrating to be honest as so far I've not come close to matching the finish I was getting from rattle cans (admittedly at about ten times the price) beforehand. As demonstrated by the engine cover below, where it caught the rain a little yesterday evening when the back end was sticking out the garage door a bit.

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We'll get there I'm sure...just going to take some time and experimentation I think.

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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Xantia Activa, Lada Riva, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D, AC Model 70.

Post by myglaren » 17 Aug 2019, 20:49

Shiny!
I may invest in one of those masks to enable concert going again.

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Zelandeth
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Xantia Activa, Lada Riva, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D, AC Model 70.

Post by Zelandeth » 19 Aug 2019, 01:29

Not a huge amount of progress from yesterday - though the rear of the roof is now the only bit which is now still in primer.

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A friend of mine who does quite a bit of painting of commercial vehicles has suggested that based on the type of paint I'm using the 1mm nozzle is likely to be sub optimal for doing full panel spraying. This ties in with my observations to be honest today when I was fiddling around with the settings on the paint gun. I got a nice finish on the little box I was using as my test piece, but turning back to the car it felt like I was puffing paint at the car through a drinking straw again.

About an hour after that conversation someone suggested that on another forum as well.

My friend has also suggested that this paint should behave well if rollered on, especially on a less than stellar surface like this where we want a bit thicker a coat than might normally be expected. So I'm going to give that a try tomorrow. Never tried it before, but curious to try it.

Should quickly be able to get the remaining bits of primer in colour quickly anyhow. I've not discounted the idea of getting it along to the National Microcar Rally next weekend yet...but there are a lot of things which would need to go right before that can happen yet.

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van ordinaire
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Xantia Activa, Lada Riva, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D, AC Model 70.

Post by van ordinaire » 19 Aug 2019, 08:32

Keep hearing/reading about rollering but never understood it. OK, it's fine for emulsion but leaves a textured finish, which must be why they're not used for gloss - & how do you clean non-water bases paint out of a roller?

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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Xantia Activa, Lada Riva, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D, AC Model 70.

Post by Gibbo2286 » 19 Aug 2019, 09:39

van ordinaire wrote:
19 Aug 2019, 08:32
Keep hearing/reading about rollering but never understood it. OK, it's fine for emulsion but leaves a textured finish, which must be why they're not used for gloss - & how do you clean non-water bases paint out of a roller?
Buy them in pack of three for not much money and chuck 'em away after use.

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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Xantia Activa, Lada Riva, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D, AC Model 70.

Post by Hell Razor5543 » 19 Aug 2019, 09:49

That is how Mum gets them. Every so often (2 years or so) she has to have her narrow boat taken out of the water for checks and to re-do the bitumen paint. This needs to be removed, any rust needs to be treated (something called "amorfos"), the red lead paint needs to be touched up, and a new coat of bitumen paint applied. For the main areas she uses paint rollers, and paint brushes for touching in.

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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Xantia Activa, Lada Riva, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D, AC Model 70.

Post by myglaren » 19 Aug 2019, 10:24

van ordinaire wrote:
19 Aug 2019, 08:32
Keep hearing/reading about rollering but never understood it. OK, it's fine for emulsion but leaves a textured finish, which must be why they're not used for gloss - & how do you clean non-water bases paint out of a roller?
There are gloss rollers available, used them lots as they cut down application time considerably.
However, I always lay the finish off with a brush to avoid the orange peel effect.
Turps (white spirit, turps substitute) will clean the rollers, same as brushes, as will brush cleaner.
As Gibbo says though, chuck them away, not worth the time, effort and expense of the thinners/solvents to be worthwhile.
When using alkyd gloss the rollers can be stored under water, same as brushes (messy though) or in an airtight poly bag with a teaspoon of turps in it.
Only for a limited time though - 48 hours-ish.

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Zelandeth
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Xantia Activa, Lada Riva, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D, AC Model 70.

Post by Zelandeth » 19 Aug 2019, 12:48

Done a bit more homework. Turns out there are two versions of the spray gun I've got. One with a 1mm nozzle (which I have) and a 1.5mm version. The latter being probably far better suited to the job I'm doing and the paint I'm using.

As for roller/brush application a lot depends on the paint. Certain sorts of paint will self level quite substantially after application so will smooth out any roller stippling or brush strokes quite effectively.

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van ordinaire
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Xantia Activa, Lada Riva, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D, AC Model 70.

Post by van ordinaire » 19 Aug 2019, 21:06

myglaren wrote:
19 Aug 2019, 10:24
van ordinaire wrote:
19 Aug 2019, 08:32
Keep hearing/reading about rollering but never understood it. OK, it's fine for emulsion but leaves a textured finish, which must be why they're not used for gloss - & how do you clean non-water bases paint out of a roller?
There are gloss rollers available, used them lots as they cut down application time considerably.
However, I always lay the finish off with a brush to avoid the orange peel effect.
Turps (white spirit, turps substitute) will clean the rollers, same as brushes, as will brush cleaner.
As Gibbo says though, chuck them away, not worth the time, effort and expense of the thinners/solvents to be worthwhile.
When using alkyd gloss the rollers can be stored under water, same as brushes (messy though) or in an airtight poly bag with a teaspoon of turps in it.
Only for a limited time though - 48 hours-ish.
I was brought up on lambswool rollers, which were washed & used again year after year (you'd no more throw one away than you would a good quality brush. It's those cheap nasty foam ones that do an impression of "orangepeel" but I'd expect them tp disolve in contact with anything stronger than warm water. I don't do decorating now, so I am talking about how it used to be.

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van ordinaire
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Xantia Activa, Lada Riva, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D, AC Model 70.

Post by van ordinaire » 19 Aug 2019, 21:44

Zelandeth wrote:
15 Aug 2019, 13:16
. . . Tyres will be Uniroyal RainExpert (3 I think they're on these days), they have been my go to tyre for a number of years . . .
That's the sort of tyre I had in mind, when I suggested you might be pleasantly surprised at the price.

Rain Expert 3's were what I'd more or less decided on for the Xantia, when the decision was taken out of my hands. Might still get a pair for the C15, if either of my tyre shops of choice have them - although they seem to have lost their "A" rating to a brand I'm not familiar with.
Last edited by van ordinaire on 29 Aug 2019, 21:37, edited 1 time in total.

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Zelandeth
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Xantia Activa, Lada Riva, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D, AC Model 70.

Post by Zelandeth » 19 Aug 2019, 23:19

Unless I'm hallucinating, it looks like we might actually be making progress now.

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Ten points to everyone who suggested that a 1mm nozzle was smaller than ideal for this paint and application. 1.5mm is working far better. It feels like far more of the paint is now actually ending up on the panel now than just floating around in the garage. I had about 250ml left of the original litre...and it felt like it went way further than two refills of the original spray gun would have. There's probably room to open it up a bit more yet to be fair too. 

Will get an additional two litres picked up tomorrow, get the last few bits of car masked up, then have another bash at it. It's behaving far closer to what I was expecting with this spray gun though, and is giving a finish which it's actually worth flatting back for the next coat, rather than a finish that is rougher than the abrasive I'd plan to flat it with. 

Time will tell if it's a false start...but this feels like progress.

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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Xantia Activa, Lada Riva, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D, AC Model 70.

Post by daviemck2006 » 20 Aug 2019, 00:24

I usually go for uniroyal rainsport 3, and get them from camskill, who seem to be the cheapest for them. I had them on both xantia, on 17"wheels, on the 107, on the 407 coupe, my daughter had them on her a4, and now has 2 on her Leon, and when it needs another 2 they will be the same again. My leon is on cheapo budget haida which are about 4mm all round, but will probably be changed before winter onto raindports most likely, or possibly vredestien quattric all weathers. My little c1 has continental eco contact in 165/60x15. Dont get rainsport in that size so a different size may be suitable. It certainly wont be continental again, the car is just over 3 years old and only done 6600 miles and the tyres are crap. Hardly any wear, but cracking between the treads on all 4. I dont think they will be on that much longer either

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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Xantia Activa, Lada Riva, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D, AC Model 70.

Post by van ordinaire » 20 Aug 2019, 23:32

Always intersted on your views on tyres, Davie, in fact one of the reasons for me thinking about RainExperts was I recall them figuring in your "top 3" a while back. However, a little surprised you are thinking of getting some before Winter - as they're Summer tyres. (& I'm still uncertain now they are no longer "A" for wet grip)

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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - Xantia Activa, Lada Riva, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D, AC Model 70.

Post by Zelandeth » 21 Aug 2019, 03:00

Will be Uniroyal tyres I go for. Have to admit that I don't look at the letter ratings really... I've never been disappointed with them and haven't heard any increase in horror stories lately to suggest they've gone downhill.

Just annoying that quite a few things are coming up to be needed on the Xantia at the same time. Tyres, exhaust, a need to get a professional to look at the front end and stop the suspension clattering, and she's getting to the point where she would probably really benefit from a set of spheres. Nothing I begrudge the car...all consumables that she's earned, just the timing could be better.

Today was very much a game of two halves. Also can be read as "discovering the pitfalls you need to watch for when painting."

Given I was going into this with precisely zero experience, not unexpected that days like this would happen.

Picked up the additional paint, got the gun ready, loaded up with an actually carefully measured 5:1 mix and did a quick test panel. All looked good. Regulator settings still seem well off the mark, but the spray looks good so I'm going with the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" approach there. Let's not make myself work. 

Things were actually going well up until about the 80% mark. Though I REALLY need to tidy my garage up. Trying to move around a car covered in wet paint in there is near impossible just now.

At that point something odd happened... suddenly the volume of paint I got out of the gun increased by a factor of about ten it felt like. It was very visible when that happened from the cloud and the change in sound. 

Best guess I have (also pointed to from the visible evidence) is that I'd not done a good enough job of mixing the thinners in and I pulled in a pocket that was very thinners rich. Sadly this resulted in it looking like I'd dumped a bottle of thinners over the roof and offside door.

Am I disgruntled? Not really. It's a learning experience and I'd far rather make these mistakes on a car that's this cosmetically challenged with relatively cheap paint rather than respraying the Xantia or something like that where the final finish is far more critical.

 So I'll definitely need to give some areas another coat, but we're looking close to a point where I'm going to feel I can call it good enough for now on some areas now.

Pictures hopefully speak a thousand words...

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The target here is to get to a state which you'd not immediately think looked scruffy if you saw me driving past...and it feels like we're starting to get there.

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Here's the two shots where there's evidence of my "paint flow anomaly" which I'll need to resolve.

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Nothing a quick rub down to smooth out the resulting runs and a recoat can't sort though. Will have done a decent job of sealing the surface at least. 

I don't think I'm being too forward in saying that I think TPA is looking a heck of a lot better than she did a couple of weeks ago. Just a shame I didn't get this done before the FotU! 

I've not bothered masking the indicator surrounds up front as they're badly perished and will be replaced shortly. Likewise the lock on the engine cover - it's seized beyond all redemption so will be getting changed. 

I'll be getting a small brush out and doing a few details by hand. The edges of the door frames you can't see with the doors closed (I can't be bothered taking the doors off or masking the whole interior off!) for one, and applying some "steel wheel silver" to the engine cover hinges and the air intake grill. Wheels will be getting hammered metallic black (one is already done) as well.

Then next up will be sorting a few items on the snagging list I think. High on that list is to get the dash out to sort some wiring "repairs" I've seen which I don't like. The screw terminal strip which is carrying the full primary circuit current (including battery charge I believe - so theoretically up to 35A) which I really don't like. The ignition switch gets quite warm too, so I'd really like to get some relays fitted to take the strain off it.

...Or I've been spending too much time working on PSA vehicles with their self destructing ignition switch contacts and it's made me paranoid!

That's obviously the ideal time to get the switch for my heater blower fan wired up as the dash will be out and I'll have the soldering iron and heat shrink out.

Feels like I've made more steps forward today than in a while though. 
I continue to be very glad I bought the proper mask for this job.

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Far prefer that blue paint to be in the filters there than in me!