Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Tell us your ongoing tales and experiences with your French car here. Post pictures of your car here as well.

Moderators: RichardW, myglaren

User avatar
xantia_v6
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 7838
Joined: 09 Nov 2005, 23:03
x 501

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by xantia_v6 »

This guy says that the genuine Nissan fluid is inferior to a generic ATF (too viscous when cold).
User avatar
myglaren
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 20165
Joined: 02 Mar 2008, 14:30
x 1623

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by myglaren »

You could ask Opie Oils. There is a 'free expert advice option there.
https://www.opieoils.co.uk/
User avatar
mickthemaverick
Donor 2021
Posts: 7038
Joined: 11 May 2019, 17:56
x 1974

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by mickthemaverick »

This site gives you the castrol equivalent of Nissan Matic S and from that you will be able to find other options:

https://www.castrol.com/en_gb/united-ki ... luids.html

And here is the full spec sheet for the Molykote M77

https://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricants. ... pplier.pdf
User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 8414
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
x 411

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by Mandrake »

myglaren wrote:
17 Jul 2021, 22:46
You could ask Opie Oils. There is a 'free expert advice option there.
https://www.opieoils.co.uk/
Snap. I've just done a search there already and plan to order these:

https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-77376-cast ... fluid.aspx

This specifically comes up as a match for the gearbox for the Leaf. Also I'm going to grab a tub of this Moly grease for the outer CV joint splines:

https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-140359-com ... v500g.aspx

I'm undecided whether I should also use the Moly grease for the motor drive spline where it goes into the gearbox or just normal Lithium grease. I've been pouring through the service manual and can't find them referring to it as anything other than "grease" !
User avatar
Zelandeth
Donor 2016
Posts: 4002
Joined: 17 Nov 2014, 00:36
x 474

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by Zelandeth »

Seconded on "Ask Opie" as they helped me figure out some obscure oil I was after a couple of years ago...which I think was power steering fluid for the Saab...which helpfully just said "Caution! Use Approved Fluid!" without actually specifying anywhere what that was - and several people had found out the hard way it wasn't just ATF as was often the case.
User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 8414
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
x 411

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by Mandrake »

I've ordered the ATF and Moly grease from opie oils, and also a small bag of split pins for the hub nuts from ebay, so onto the next problems....!

The first is that I can't for the life of me find the size/thread of the nylock nuts for the lower ball joint and track rod end for the hubs so that I can get some new nuts in. I've scoured the digital copies of the service manual that I have but it just doesn't seem to be in it. (It gives torques but not nut diameter/thread)

Would this information normally be in a separate parts catalogue ?

While browsing the procedures they also make reference to a couple of special tools - one a driveshaft puller, and another a guide tool to insert the driveshafts into the gearbox without damaging the seals:
Seal Protector.png
Seal Protector 2.png
Drive shaft puller.png
How necessary are these tools ? The Seal protector is around £125 alone. :roll:

Another thing I'm wondering about is what holds the driveshafts in the gearbox - is there a split spring in a groove that prevents it pulling out and if so how is that released ?
Just by pulling adequately hard or is this where the drive shaft puller tool comes in ? :?

Even though I have the full service manuals a lot of this just isn't clear.
User avatar
white exec
Moderating Team
Posts: 7219
Joined: 21 Dec 2015, 13:46
x 1381

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by white exec »

IIRC, there's a similar drive shaft seal protector recommended for PSA cars, but it essentially just consists of a short length of thin polythene tubing, pushed into the seal opening first, and then the shaft inserted.
I think BoLs has pics of it.
Even just a piece of builder's polythene put inside the seal would protect it while the (oiled) splined shaft goes in,
User avatar
NewcastleFalcon
Posts: 16676
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 11:40
x 1751

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Well for viewers if not for yourself Simon these are the pictures from the Manual.

Can't see anything on them which would point to any special method of removing the driveshafts.

Gibbo would have removed driveshafts in say 10,000's, me probably in the dozens and some time ago :-D

They should just pull/pry out. In amongst my 12 or so was an driveshaft on a ford Mondeo which wouldn't come out. Eventually did with a painstaking use of a clamp on the shaft giving a surface to exert backwards force with a few blows of a lump hammer in a painstaking circular, hammer, turn, hammer, turn repeat.

Don't think any of the Nissan specific tools listed will be necessary, but a set of pry bars if you don't have them would assist.
Click the pic a couple of times and it gets readable
driveshafts.jpg
edit just to add the e-bay Nissan Leaf Driveshafts as mentioned by Richard
temp4.png
Regards Neil
Last edited by NewcastleFalcon on 19 Jul 2021, 13:37, edited 1 time in total.
RichardW
Forum Treasurer
Posts: 9565
Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 17:12
x 463

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by RichardW »

A look at a LH drive shaft on e-bay shows a good difference between the splines and the seal surface, so unless you are completely cack handed the seal won't get wrecked even without the protector - the RH driveshaft the difference is less, but still do able.

A Juke appears to use a very similar driveshaft and front end lay out. This video of a Juke clutch change shows the removal of the LH shaft at about 4min in, it doesn't seem to be too hard to overcome the circlip. Re-installation at about 50min, again seems to go back pretty easy, so I can't see a need for the driveshaft tool, that is probably for dismantling the shaft for boot changing. Early part of the video shows the process of splitting the lower ball joint. Should be no need to undo the track rod end, but that doesn't help with the nut size of ball joint (of course here the original nut is re-fitted) It shouldn't be too hard to whip one of the nuts off the car and measure it.



Grease for the motor splines should be clear once off - if t's all black use the Moly grease, if it's not, use a std grease :lol:
User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 8414
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
x 411

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by Mandrake »

RichardW wrote:
19 Jul 2021, 12:19
A look at a LH drive shaft on e-bay shows a good difference between the splines and the seal surface, so unless you are completely cack handed the seal won't get wrecked even without the protector - the RH driveshaft the difference is less, but still do able.

A Juke appears to use a very similar driveshaft and front end lay out. This video of a Juke clutch change shows the removal of the LH shaft at about 4min in, it doesn't seem to be too hard to overcome the circlip. Re-installation at about 50min, again seems to go back pretty easy, so I can't see a need for the driveshaft tool, that is probably for dismantling the shaft for boot changing. Early part of the video shows the process of splitting the lower ball joint. Should be no need to undo the track rod end, but that doesn't help with the nut size of ball joint (of course here the original nut is re-fitted) It shouldn't be too hard to whip one of the nuts off the car and measure it.
Thanks for the video - it gives me some idea of what I have ahead of me, although there is little in the way of ancillaries connected to this gearbox compared the Juke - as far as I can see just the cable for the parking brake actuator and a breather pipe.

After I went looking for lower ball joints online to try to figure out what size nut it uses I realised it doesn't use the same attachment style as the Xantia with a nut on the end of the ball joint itself. As your video confirms it is uses a nut and bolt going through a split housing which has to be spread to get the ball joint to let go - I have a suitable cold chisel to do the prising apart of the nut/bolt section but I don't have a long steel bar as show in the video to lever the lower arm down, although I might be able to use one of my ball joint splitters to push it apart.

I guess I'll find out - I'm going to take it a step at a time and if I find I don't have something I need I'll pause the job while I get it. I'm expecting it to take me a few days picking away at it.

Like you suggest my plan A was to disconnect only the lower ball joint and leave the steering joint connected to see if that gave me enough movement to free the driveshaft stub axle.

I'm starting on it today - just about to get the car jacked up to the right height for the transmission lift trolley to be able to reach the gearbox and yet go low enough to clear under the car during removal.

I don't have the seals, oil or grease for the new gearbox yet, they're still on the way but I should be able to go as far as removing the wheels, disconnecting the lower ball joints, removing the driveshafts, draining the gearbox and actually removing the gearbox - and that's half the job done.
Grease for the motor splines should be clear once off - if t's all black use the Moly grease, if it's not, use a std grease :lol:
I like your thinking :)
User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 8414
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
x 411

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by Mandrake »

This arrived today :)
4135082D-9C32-4694-9E80-9F932BC539C7.jpeg
Looks like it will be perfect for the job. As soon as the gearbox is pulled slightly apart (but still engaged with the motor shaft) I should be able to slip the strap up between them and strap tightly onto the gearbox before I finish pulling it across and then lowering it down, so no real risk of losing control of it.

I just about had a heart attack this morning when I went to move the car into the work position - I drove around the block and could not hear any sign of the noise. :shock:

So I drove further and finally after about 3 miles of driving the noise re-appeared. This has really got me wondering what the cause of the noise is, although ultimately as long as the fault is in the gearbox I don't care what the fine details are I suppose.

I double checked in a car park that accelerating on full lock in forward and reverse did not make any noise from the driveshafts.

I found that accelerating in reverse did not actually make a noise (at least not at the low speeds that the car lets you do in reverse as it limits you to 10mph) and that while driving the noise was actually worst in between power and overrun and was most audible at around 30mph. So it's worst when the gears are turning rapidly while "slack".
RichardW
Forum Treasurer
Posts: 9565
Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 17:12
x 463

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by RichardW »

The ZX used that type of lower joint - they slacken off, but then tighten up as the joint pulls out and the angle changes. On the ZX they could be released by pushing the hub inwards as the arm is levered down, then they just drop out when the angle is right. You can lever them out with a crowbar under the hub. Usually once you have freed the bottom joint there is plenty of play in the strut to extract the driveshaft.

Be interesting to see the innards of the box and if what is wrong is apparent!
User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 8414
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
x 411

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by Mandrake »

Well I didn't get as much done today as I hoped, but I keep forgetting that I'm old, out of shape and unfit so everything takes twice as long as I think it should. I'm certainly going to be sore tomorrow. :lol:

I gave the "new" gearbox a try on the stand and it fits well, being quite a small gearbox!
22747B4B-A74E-4A6E-B7CC-38EFB58D181F.jpeg
A lot of the challenge was getting the car at just the right height with what I have available so the transmission stand could reach the gearbox but also let it roll out underneath. I ended up with the front crossmember being 550mm from the ground which gives about 100mm clearance when the stand is down and 100mm of spare reach available at the top:
531D7BE7-C81E-48B1-AC5A-6FE152F1FE52.jpeg
9F1AED8F-6B5C-4FEE-A52D-169CA18A882B.jpeg
The "new" gearbox sitting below the old one still in the car:
DCC20C86-CE4D-40D6-8428-58A8C39C9222.jpeg
I ended up having to use axle stands on driveway slabs to get the right height although I have ramps with sleeper blocks underneath as well as backups if the stands tip over or fail for any reason! It seems pretty solid though so I'm happy working under it.

I think I'm ready to drain the gearbox and tackle removing the driveshafts next. I plan to take a day off work on Wednesday as I need to be at work tomorrow and to be honest my body will thank me for the rest...

I've had all the plugs out of the "new" gearbox to check they all come out easily - there is a filler on the top, a level plug on the side near the back with a magnet and a drain plug near the bottom also with a magnet. There was a tiny bit of filings on the bottom plug magnet but nothing you wouldn't expect.

The only thing I haven't quite figured out yet is how to support the motor stack with the gearbox removed - it's too high for my new jack or axle stands. One possibility is a wooden beam underneath strapped to the cross members however I forgot to order any ratchet straps. I do have some chain and shackles that might work but its probably not ideal.
User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 8414
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
x 411

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by Mandrake »

Argh. A bit of a disaster - I just realised that there are two versions of the gearbox oil seal for the Leaf - one with a 33mm inner diameter and one with a 40mm inner diameter and I've ordered the wrong one from Autodoc. #-o (The replacement gearbox seems to have the 33mm one fitted and I ordered the 40mm one - both are listed as compatible for the car ??!)

Also the courier sending that order has a big warning on their tracking website saying their deliveries may be affected by the flooding.

So I decided to order the correct size from somewhere else, rexbo.co.uk. Imagine my annoyance when I got an order confirmation email back from "rexbo", and a followup paypal email thanking me for my payment to autodoc gmbh!! #-o There should be some kind of law about trading under so many different names pretending to be different companies... :roll: I specifically didn't order from Autodoc due to them being slow but apparently I have actually ordered from them anyway. :(

So apparently rexbo is just a UK front for autodoc and will likely be just as slow sending my part. So unfortunately I don't think I'm going to have the correct seals to finish the job until at least next week now. :cry:
User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 8414
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
x 411

Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by Mandrake »

Found a source in Latvia who are not an Autodoc front who say one to three days so I’ve ordered (hopefully) the correct size from there.

I’m going to end up with a lot of unwanted seals at the end of this… :roll:

I’ve tried to cancel the rexbo order before it ships but they make this as difficult as possible!
Last edited by Mandrake on 20 Jul 2021, 07:27, edited 1 time in total.