How do I stop the alarm going off Xantia II

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Re: How do I stop the alarm going off Xantia II

Post by Mandrake »

Just an update on my progress with this, I removed both transducers from the doors and sure enough I can set the alarm without pressing the disable button on the dashboard, and it doesn't go off by itself. :) Although I've removed them completely, to disable them all that should be necessary is to unplug the transducer on the left hand door, for anyone who wants a quick fix that disables the ultrasonic movement sensor but leaves the door sensors active and the alarm arm-able.

I ordered the above 40LR12 and 40LT12 transducers from http://www.mansky.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and they have now arrived, they look like they are the right diameter and should fit with some minor adaption to the mounting - the original transducers have a sort of integral moulded rubber fitting which can't be removed. (I cut one open to see what's inside) Assuming it doesn't rain this weekend I'll attempt to fit and test them and post pictures and description of how to do so.

The tests that I've done so far show that the left hand door transducer is the transmitter, and is driven by a 15v p-p 40Khz square wave, while the right hand door transducer is the receiver. I first disconnected and removed the receive transducer from the right door, sat it near the transmitter and measured the received signal on a 'scope and straight away found why the alarm is going off - the amplitude of the signal was jumping up and down intermittently without any movement...since movement causes rapid fluctuations in the received signal this of course makes the alarm think there is movement.

I then measured the drive signal to the left hand transducer with the transducer connected and can see the amplitude jumping up and down randomly in a similar way, however the drive signal is steady if I disconnect the transducer and measure the output from the ECU without it. From this I can tell that the output from the alarm ECU is ok but the transmit transducer is faulty.

As long as I can mount the new transducers satisfactorily (they need to be securely mounted so they can't move around with vibration etc otherwise trucks might set the alarm off...) then there is a very good chance that they should work perfectly.

Meanwhile while testing the alarm I think I've found another problem - if I try to arm the alarm with the boot or any of the passenger doors open I get the warning beep from the siren as expected, however I don't get this warning if the bonnet is left open, so the bonnet switch doesn't seem to work. I assume there is in fact a bonnet switch for the alarm ? If so does anyone know where it is and where its connector is ?
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Re: How do I stop the alarm going off Xantia II

Post by CitroJim »

Excellent work Simon :-D =D>

The bonnet switch is on the RH latch on the slam panel as you look into the bonnet. The style of switch is identical to that used on the boot latch. You can see the brown connector for it nearby...

It often fails as it's quite a delicate little flower really. I've seem them crumbled to nothing.
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Re: How do I stop the alarm going off Xantia II

Post by Mandrake »

Will check that out, thanks Jim. Another possibility is that one of the previous owners may have disconnected it in an attempt to stop the alarm going off all the time...
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Re: How do I stop the alarm going off Xantia II

Post by Mandrake »

Well the alarm repair has been put on hold due to the car being off the road with a broken exhaust, but the new transducers were all ready to install back in the car, (on the same day the exhaust broke, ironically) which I will do once the exhaust is fixed... Here's a few pics meanwhile:

Old and new transducers side by side:
IMG_4773.jpg
The diameter of the new transducer is 12mm, the same as the tip of the old transducer allowing it to push right into the hole in the plastic bracket, however the diameter needs to be built up a couple of millimetres back from the end so that it will fit snuggly in the hole.

Wiring to the transducer:
IMG_4777.jpg
Because I cut the cables well away from the transducers I ended up having to replace the cables with some audio cable to restore the length - I would not recommend doing this as re-terminating the new cables neatly on the plugs is difficult on the yellow plug and nigh on impossible on the smaller brown one where I couldn't figure out how to release the terminals. I would strongly recommend cutting the cable right at the base of the old transducer to keep maximum cable length so the old cables can be reused. I wasted a lot of time re-terminating the plug ends and had to splice the brown one in the finish.

To build the diameter of the transducer up to fit the back of the hole I used none other than self amalgamating rubber tape. :-D This stuff is brilliant, and with the right number of layers I had a snug fit that was quite tight and probably would have been ok by itself:
IMG_4784.jpg
It also provides a good way of insulating the soldered connections and adds strain relief to the cable.

(continued in part 2)
Last edited by Mandrake on 20 Sep 2012, 14:19, edited 2 times in total.
Simon

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Re: How do I stop the alarm going off Xantia II

Post by Mandrake »

Here it is manoeuvred into the hole so that the sensor face is flush inside the hole at the front:
IMG_4780.jpg
Although it was quite snug I thought I would add some glue just to keep it nice and still and avoid having it moving in response to vibrations from trucks etc: (the glue shrunk a lot after taking the picture)
IMG_4791.jpg
So here's how the new transducers look compared to the old ones: (click to show full image)
IMG_4772.jpg
I don't know about anyone else, but I actually prefer the wire gauze look of the new transducers over the old ones!

Keep in mind I haven't fully tested this yet, so it could be a long series of posts leading up to complete failure. :lol:

On the other hand, I have connected the transmitter to the cable from the left door temporarily and the receiver to a 'scope and verified that they function electrically and acoustically, (a reasonably good signal pickup that is very steady without movement and fluctuates with movement) but a full test of the functioning of the alarm in regards to sensitivity to movement within the cabin and resistance to false alarms has not yet been done...fingers crossed. :)
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Re: How do I stop the alarm going off Xantia II

Post by Mandrake »

Final update on this - enough time has passed now for me to declare the alarm ultrasonic sensor repair a success. =D> It's gone a full week without any false triggering of the ultrasonics, when previously it would go off without fail in less than 30 minutes. :-D

So to conclude I'll provide a summary of the fault and the repair. In my case the fault was the transmit transducer on the left hand door - probably either a dry joint internally or a crack in the pizeo-electric crystal. Diagnosing and confirming the cause of the fault is made easier with a small oscilloscope or a Lexia, but neither are actually required to fix this problem.

The first step is to confirm the ultrasonics as the cause of the alarm going off - if you have access to a Lexia you can read the 15 most recent alarm activations (and also clear them) so if nearly all of them are the ultrasonics its a sure bet that they are to blame. If you don't have a Lexia, simply hold down the alarm button on the dashboard until the alarm light comes on before exiting the car and arming the alarm - this disables the ultrasonic sensors (one time only) but leaves the alarm and door sensors active.

If you can do this for a week with no false alarms (and you normally get them more frequently than this) then its a reasonable bet that this is the problem. If remembering to hold down the button before exiting the car every time is too inconvenient, the alternative is to unplug the yellow plug to the left hand door ultrasonic sensor, which will permanently disable them.

If you have a portable oscilloscope (who doesn't :lol: ) try measuring the drive signal to the transmitter on the left hand door while its still plugged in - if you see the amplitude varying in any way, but the amplitude is steady when the transmitter is unplugged, immediately suspect the transmitter being faulty. Likewise you can measure the output of the receiver on the right hand door (it doesn't need to be plugged into the door) and if there is any rapid variation in amplitude the receiver is faulty. (If the transmitter was ok)

Note: for this to be valid the windows and doors must be closed and you must be outside the car, as the slightest movement inside the car - even your chest moving with breathing, will cause the amplitude to vary.

Now that you know the ultrasonic sensors are to blame, what to do about it ? If you just want a quick fix so that that damn alarm stops going off in the middle of the night, you can lock the car with the fob, and still have some measure of protection thanks to the door sensors, simply unplug the yellow plug to the sensor in the LEFT hand door. This will permanently disable the ultrasonics.

If you want to fix the problem properly, look further back in this thread for the full details. The ultrasonic transducers are relatively cheap - £7.95 each (compared to about £40 and £90 from citroen for each) available from http://www.mansky.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - they did charge me £15 for shipping, but that was due to them sending them by next day signed for delivery due to a miscommunication during ordering. (They can only take orders by phone or email and credit card details only by phone) The part numbers are 40LR12 (receiver, right hand door) and 40LT12. (transmitter, left hand door)

It's not necessary to fully remove the door cards to remove the sensors, heres how:

Remove the small torx screw beneath the electric window switches and pop the plastic plate with the switches out. Remove the two large torx bolts behind this plastic plate. Remove the two large torx screws either side of the flip open map pocket, (can only be seen with the top bit flipped half way out) use a flat blade screwdriver to pop the cover off the speaker, remove the two torx screws between the edge of the door and the speaker, do NOT remove the screws from the speaker itself, it's not necessary. Nor is it necessary to remove that infernal lock button that is a pain to get back on! :twisted:

You can now pull carefully but firmly on the door card down the side nearest the door hinge and it should let go. Sometimes a bit of persuasion with a long screwdriver is needed to lever it up. This bit can be nerve wracking because it will sound like something has broken when it lets go, and it is actually quite easy to break those plastic clips, but somehow in removing each door card multiple times I was lucky and had no casualties. (Not so on other Xantia's... :roll: )

Once the clips let go you just need to lift the card away 2-3 inches to give enough room to unplug the connector and then prise up the triangle piece of plastic that holds the sensor. It's just held in by three plastic pegs that push into 3 tight nylon sleeves in the door, just lift the edges a bit with a screwdriver then just pull it evenly out with your fingers.

After refitting the new sensors, it comes time to test they're working. If you have a Lexia this is easy - go to the live sensor data (where it shows the state of all the doors being open/closed etc) and sit dead still in the car with windows and doors closed. Raise your arm and move it around a bit and you should see a response from the "volumetric" sensor. It should be quite sensitive - any moderately fast movement within line of sight to the sensors should trigger it.

If you don't have a Lexia you'll just have to try tripping the alarm. Sit in the car with windows and doors closed, lock the doors with the fob, sit perfectly still for at least a minute (the ultrasonic sensors don't activate for 45 seconds) then move your arm - the alarm should go off immediately until you unlock the doors with the fob. (Now observe the puzzled looks of your neighbours peering through their windows as you set off the alarm whilst sitting inside your car :lol: )

Assuming that test passes we know the sensors will respond to a break in, now all that remains is to see that there are no false alarms - just use the alarm normally for a week or so, if there are no false alarms, job done. :)
Simon

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Re: How do I stop the alarm going off Xantia II

Post by martscar »

I have just started getting problems with my 1999 Xantia but its very sporadic, sometimes weeks apart. Where to start is my first question .These sensors,are the wired a certain way, i e, which wire to what terminal please.I think it may be an unplug as it seems a bit outside my basic knowledge
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Re: How do I stop the alarm going off Xantia II

Post by Mandrake »

If there's someone near you on the forum with a Lexia it can read the alarm and tell you the cause of the last 15 alarm activations - that would immediately pinpoint whether it was the ultrasonic sensors or one of the door switches.

If it was happening more frequently (mine would go off within an hour of arming the alarm) you can temporarily disable the ultrasonic sensors by holding down the button near the right hand side of the dashboard until the LED is lit on the door, then getting out of the car and arming the alarm - this leaves door switches active but disables ultrasonics. If it no longer goes off you know it was the ultrasonics.

However if its extremely sporadic getting the fault codes read with a Lexia would be the only way to know for sure what the cause is.
Simon

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Re: How do I stop the alarm going off Xantia II

Post by kenhall1202 »

Hi Simon,

Thanks for a very interesting/useful account of your alarm repair.

My 1996 XM has recently started showing the same symptoms of problems with the ultrasonic transducers for the second time during my ownership. The first time it happened several years ago I was able to buy a pair of new sensors from Citroen and the problem went away. These sensors seem to have a finite lifespan, having failed yet again and a pair of replacements (p/no 668092) from Citroen appear to be no longer available (NFP).

I have removed the two sensors, to avoid having to remember to set the over-ride every time I lock the car, and will refit new transducers as you have done.
In order to make sure that I fit the transmitter and receiver in the correct positions please can you confirm the connector colours that you saw on your Xantia.
My XM has a red connector on the nearside and a yellow connector on the offside.

Thanks for your help.

Ken
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Re: How do I stop the alarm going off Xantia II

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

The likelihood is that the connectors are probably keyed (so that they won't fit in the wrong place), and it is normal for Citroen to make connecting pairs the same colour.
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Re: How do I stop the alarm going off Xantia II

Post by kenhall1202 »

Perhaps I didn't make my query clear enough.

If I obtain a pair of new bare ultrasonic sensors for my XM do I solder the transmitter to the unique yellow plug + lead and the receiver to the unique red plug + lead or vice versa.
From what I can understand from Simon's write up it would be the first option.

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Re: How do I stop the alarm going off Xantia II

Post by Mandrake »

Hi Ken,

For some reason I didn't notice your posts so I hope this is not too late!

On my S2 Xantia the front left door had a yellow connector and was the transmitter while the front right (drivers) door was the receiver. (Brown or black plug I think, can't actually remember)

I have read that S1 Xantia's have the transmit and receive side reversed compared to the S2 so its possible that the XM is different as well. To be sure you would need to measure the two connectors to find which side is the transmitter - it will have a large 40Khz square wave present as soon as you arm the alarm, and regardless of whether you have the transducer plugged in or not.

The only problem is most digital multimeters cannot read as high as 40Khz on AC volts, so you need either a digital meter with a frequency counter mode or an oscilloscope to detect the signal. I used a scope. My digital multimeter can't read that high in frequency on AC volts but can in frequency counter mode, so would have been usable too.
Simon

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Re: How do I stop the alarm going off Xantia II

Post by kenhall1202 »

Hi Simon,

Thanks for the reply. I got there in the end!
Here is what I posted on the XM forum after successfully repairing the ultasonic sensors.

"For the second time in my XM ownership the alarm started going off at random necessitating using the internal sensor over-ride button every time I locked the car.
On the first time this happened several years ago I simply coughed up for a new pair of ultrasonic sensors from Citroen and all was well until recently. Replacement sensors are now no longer available from Citroen so I decided to follow a similar Xantia II problem fix detailed on FCF.

Although the existing sensors (push fitted into recesses behind the tweeter grilles) are 12.5mm diameter the ones I bought off ebay are only 10mm diameter and had to be sleeved with plastic tube to keep them securely in place. A pair of these Japanese made sensors was only £4.90 from this seller:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/400419879266" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;? ... 1439.l2649
Repair consists of unsoldering the old sensors from the existing leads (after carefully carving away the moulded rubber surround/flex grip) and soldering in the new ones. The new bare sensors are supplied as matched pairs of a sender and a receiver, marked S and R and must be fitted to the correct position ie sender (red plug +lead) on the nearside and receiver (yellow plug + lead) on the offside. I found that temporary removal of the side vents and tweeters was necessary to give good access."

Regards

Ken
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Re: How do I stop the alarm going off Xantia II

Post by harryp »

Simon,
Late(?), very late :wink: , reply to a very useful post and one I am about to make use of. Only problem is that the pics - worth several thousand words - have expired due to the lengthy time lapse. Any chance of pm with pics, or perhaps much better, making this a sticky complete with pics in the txt???? - if it can be done, of course. 8-[
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Re: How do I stop the alarm going off Xantia II

Post by Mandrake »

Cripes. I'll have a look and see if I still have the original pictures, chances are that I possibly don't. :(

The pics didn't expire, they were lost during a forum transition/upgrade recently, along I suspect with all other pictures that were forum attachments rather than links to external photo hosts...(which means all of the earlier pictures I posted in threads before I started using dropbox, which is a few hundred pictures)
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