106 clutch cable adjustment? Automatic aduster/clutch slip

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Skippi
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106 clutch cable adjustment? Automatic aduster/clutch slip

Post by Skippi »

Morning all, I have a '98 model 106 diesel with PAS.
I've just had the clutch replaced by a friend.
Immediately afterwards the clutch biting point was very high and the clutch was slipping.
We decided to replace the old automatic adjuster cable with a new one (apparently there isn't a manual adjustment type alternative).
The biting point is now very low and the clutch still slips. It's as if the cable is now too short...
The auto adjuster mechanism sits on the bulkhead behind the engine block so isn't easy to see, let alone reach.
I've researched this subject all over the web and found no answers.
Two questions -
1) Can the auto adjuster mechanism be loosened/slackened/reset to give more travel?
2) Bearing in mind that we've already been told there isn't a manual type adjuster cable for my car (due to it having Power Assisted Steering and the shape of the hole in the bulkhead?) can someone point me to an alternative that they know actually works.
panason1c
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Post by panason1c »

I suspect the problem lies with the fitting of the new clutch, it shouldnt be slipping under the circumstances you describe..........did you fit a complete clutch kit and if so was it a 'quality' kit?........if you only fitted a new clutch plate then the problem is with the original clutch pressure cover being weak and allowing the plate to slip.
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spider
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Post by spider »

I'd agree its always always worth changing all three parts, never just the friction plate as weak springs on the pressure plate (or a used one) will do this.
Andy.

91 205D-Turbo, gone but still missed
02 106D, TUD5B, gone but not really missed apart from the MPG
Skippi
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Post by Skippi »

panason1c wrote:I suspect the problem lies with the fitting of the new clutch, it shouldnt be slipping under the circumstances you describe..........did you fit a complete clutch kit and if so was it a 'quality' kit?........if you only fitted a new clutch plate then the problem is with the original clutch pressure cover being weak and allowing the plate to slip.
I'm afraid I don't know. The supply and fit was undertaken by a friend.
When the clutch had been done the bite point had moved abnormally high to the top of it's travel hence the new cable which then saw it drop to the bottom....
I'll ask my friend about what parts were fitted...
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spider
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Post by spider »

The self adjusting cables are normally very reliable to be honest.

It (could) of stretched but that's not very likely. If you have new cable then its got to be the clutch itself or a bent release arm / fork (not too likely as these would snap rather than bend, again not common)
Andy.

91 205D-Turbo, gone but still missed
02 106D, TUD5B, gone but not really missed apart from the MPG
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Post by citronut »

you dont say what engine size the car has,

i know yeatrs ago i fitted a clutch to a BX for a taxi driver who supplied the kit him self,

it was a recon unit once fitted i had to adjust it right to the end of itsadjustment to got any clutch at all,


regards malcolm
Skippi
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Post by Skippi »

The car is the 1.5 diesel.
It's done about 75,000 and the clutch was getting a bit heavy so I decided on the change whilst having the driveshafts replaced.
I'd like to understand how the automatic adjuster works as I want to rule that out before I either try to source a manual adjuster or look at the clutch...
I'd love to hear from anyone who can either explain the adjuster or tell me where to get a suitable manual replacement.
Very grateful for all replies.
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spider
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Post by spider »

Its got a ratchet assembly about halfway down the the length of the cable if I remember correctly, similar to a 306 cable.

An early (diesel) 1.5 cable may well be manual adjustment, you will need to look at one 94 to 97 (pre 94 are likely to be the 1.4 unit)

I seem to remember the later models with PAS are a right pain to change the cable where it goes through the bulkhead due to the 'rack' position.

A manual adjust cable may not even give you enough adjustment if its the springs that are weak on the pressure plate you know...

You really need to find out what was changed. It is not (never) worth changing just the friction plate as these problems happen (on any car) unless you are very lucky. Given the cost is actually getting at the clutch it is not worth the small saving to have to risk doing it again. Sorry.
Andy.

91 205D-Turbo, gone but still missed
02 106D, TUD5B, gone but not really missed apart from the MPG
Skippi
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Post by Skippi »

spider wrote:Its got a ratchet assembly about halfway down the the length of the cable if I remember correctly, similar to a 306 cable.
Thanks Andy, it's this bit i'm interested in; I assume the ratchet tightens as the cable stretches hence automatic adjustment?
This is why i'm confused; first the clutch was replaced and the bite point on the old cable moved to the top of the clutch pedals travel. Hoping to correct this, a new cable was fitted and suddenly it's on the floor?
This suggests that the new cable is already shorter? (If this was a manual adjuster, wouldn't tightening the nut lower the biting point in the same way?)
This is why I'm keen to eliminate the cable as the potential problem.
Can the ratchet be 'released' to increase the pedal travel and thereby adjust the bite point?
Apologies if I'm sounding more than a bit thick.
panason1c
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Post by panason1c »

You need to confirm precisely what components of the clutch were replaced, sounds to me as if the clutch pressure cover has failed, or was damaged during the refitting of the gearbox, and is the root of all your symptoms.
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Post by spider »

I'd have to agree with panason1c :)

The ratchet just keeps the freeplay at the correct level mainly.

If you did (as above) fit a manual cable you might well find it had no adjustment left and you would be no better off. If you added a tube ( ! ) to extend it then it would just push through the fingers on the pressure plate after a short time.

You really 'need' to confirm what was changed, trouble is can you take their words if they say all of it :( , changing one part is never a good idea as these 'problems' appear. Surprised you found just the friction disc actually as most are only the three part assembly (pressure plate / disc / bearing)
Andy.

91 205D-Turbo, gone but still missed
02 106D, TUD5B, gone but not really missed apart from the MPG
citronut
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Post by citronut »

it could also be a thrust bearing not seated into the fork correctly,


the seaf adjuster in the cable works by shorttening the distence/length of the outter cable, as this is a two piece afare with the adjuster fitted between the two halves,

and were the two halves of the outter cable go into each end of the adjuster it has no plastic sleave on the outside,

the ratchet use's the coils/spirals of the outter as a thread,

you might find you were supplied the wrong cable which the innner is the wrong length,


i had one hell of a job three cables later on a 306, and i belive there was a 4th opption,


then the one i fitted caused the bit point to be right at the bottom of the pedel stroke,

so it took up fully as soon as the pedel started to leave the floor,

i managed to get it driveable by levering the clutch arm forward with the cable attatched which extended the inner a little bit,


regards malcolm
panason1c
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Post by panason1c »

I cant think of a reason why the original cable should have needed to be replaced, and even with the new cable the OP still has problems so surely logic eliminates the cable as being the culprit? ........the OP has stated that even with a low bite point the clutch is still slipping...that suggests to me that the pressure cover is u/s and the bite point issue is a symptom of this...... i guess an improperly seated thrust bearing could continually exert pressure on the cover causing the slip but that can be confirmed by checking if the clutch actuating arm has any 'free-play' in it....... ultimately, i think it is inevitable that the g/box will need to come out again as i'm certain therein lies the problem.
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Post by rallychris »

Hi everbody i am the person that fitted skippi clutch to his peugeot and yes i did fit the whole clutch kit all of it.and it was a quality one ac delco kit,from my source at peugeot who is a master tech he says that cracks in the bearing fork are very common and they used to change them all the time on this model.
also everyone knows that anything that says it is auto adjusting after time does not work brake shoes,clutch cables all that is auto adjusting.
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spider
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Post by spider »

Is the release arm in the correct position (assuming it comes off the upright 'forks' part on this model, some do not) ? :)

That also would cause it (I think I mentioned this earlier on in the topic) :)
Andy.

91 205D-Turbo, gone but still missed
02 106D, TUD5B, gone but not really missed apart from the MPG
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