C15 Clutch Change & Pressure Plate Fixings

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flying clutchman
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Post by flying clutchman »

Halfords are VERY expensive for tools. Machine mart do a good range of reasonable quality at good prices, and believe it or not B & Q superstores are doing more and more small tools now. If you've got an old fashioned car spares shop they often sell single torx sockets. Vauxhalls still use normal hexagon head bolts by the way!
frenchcarnut
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Post by frenchcarnut »

flying clutchman wrote:Check for cracking in the base of the leg afterwards. .
Do you reckon it would be worth welding if a crack does transpire after straightening?
flying clutchman wrote:Halfords are VERY expensive for tools. Machine mart do a good range of reasonable quality at good prices, and believe it or not B & Q superstores are doing more and more small tools now. If you've got an old fashioned car spares shop they often sell single torx sockets. Vauxhalls still use normal hexagon head bolts by the way!
Thanks will take a look. Got my eye on a set of Blue Spot bits from Amazon and a local supplier when I get chance before the weekend.
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Post by flying clutchman »

If it's not cracked it should straighten easily, usually they're ok if they look like yours.
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Post by frenchcarnut »

Thanks Clutchman

Def. T40. Got the clutch off last night, after getting a good deal on Draper tools from a local ironmonger, and seemed to have the original Valeo with the linings hardly touched and more commensurate with a 55K mileage. Just a pity the fork/bearing failed (if that's the case).

Could poor original adjustment have done this?


Pictures to follow
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flying clutchman
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Post by flying clutchman »

No, 90% of all peugeot and citroen clutches fail this way. The bearing is just too small
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Post by frenchcarnut »

flying clutchman wrote:No, 90% of all peugeot and Citroën clutches fail this way. The bearing is just too small
I recall, the last few days of my old Xantia's first clutch seemed symptomatic of this C15. So I reckon you're right. However, I let a Citroen fitter make the changes and if I remember, he said the bearing failed on that occasion too. You'd have thought modifications were in order.
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Post by flying clutchman »

been using the same bearing (with slightly different carriers) since the BX and P405. That's 25 years!!!
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Post by frenchcarnut »

flying clutchman wrote:been using the same bearing (with slightly different carriers) since the BX and P405. That's 25 years!!!
They obviously don't mind seeing people stranded :cry:
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Post by frenchcarnut »

Still waiting for some ancillaries from Citroen. I notice the input shaft cover and seal assy bolts were starting to shear at the recommended torque so had to order those, along with a new clutch pin, control arm joint shrouds and engine mount lock nut. 10 days later from order, I hope to be told I can pick these up; but I was forced into a minimum order on some items and so for a few nuts, bolts and washers ended up with a £20 bill and a long wait :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Post by flying clutchman »

suspect the torque figure you're using is wrong. Those three bolts are not meant to be very tight. I normally just nip them up with a ratchet, they're only skinny little bolts.
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Post by citronut »

just out of interest what torque setting did you have, and were did you get it from,

regards malcolm
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Post by frenchcarnut »

flying clutchman wrote:suspect the torque figure you're using is wrong. Those three bolts are not meant to be very tight. I normally just nip them up with a ratchet, they're only skinny little bolts.
citronut wrote:
just out of interest what torque setting did you have, and were did you get it from, regards malcolm
12Nm from Haynes using my little torque wrench (but as clutchman suggests, this is only a little nick in), but I now know the problem after I received the replacements: the bolt that started to shear had a full length thread, the other two were tapered at the ends. When I tried to use one of the replacement bolts (full length thread, no taper), it stopped short of the seal mounting and required considerable force thereafter. So, I unscrewed, reused the 2 good original bolts and filed down the thread of one of the remaining replacements (Citroen made me buy 5) and it went in to torque no problem. I reckon the damage had already been done on the old suspect bolt. I'm wondering if this was a factory drilling problem or that the bolts are supposed to be tapered and exactly right. If the latter, why did Citroen sell me full threaded, full end-width bolts and what about consistency? Also, I had assumed the clutch hadn't been touched before, but perhaps it had with this erroneous bolt - but then perhaps that could have been done on the assembly line regardless given what Citroen sold me.

Oh well, we live and learn. Gearbox up and on this weekend. Just the bits and bobs to re-attach when I get the time this week and torque up.

Will put up some photos when I get chance
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Post by frenchcarnut »

Anyway, tools first: I managed to get this Draper Torx set from my local motor factor. I don't normally like non-dedicated sockets, but as these come with Draper's lifetime warranty, I thought they were great value at £10 and did me proud.

Image.

Once the old clutch was removed, I had to make a clutch alignment tool, so took some measurements of the input shaft diameter and the flywheel centre shaft aperture and immediately thought about using 15mm copper tubing used for standard plumbing - since I have loads of offcuts from previous DIY jobs! To replicate the step up in diameter of the input shaft (or at least get close to the 19mm required), I decided to use an end feed copper join, which took the step to just over 17mm, and position it at the correct distance from the end (offered up pipe with the new clutch loosely in place and used a marker pen to mark the extremity of the join). I then used electrical insulating tape to converge on the actual requirement. The flywheel side was either too thick (couldn't insert the tool) or too thin (wobbled in the flywheel) so finished off with Sellotape® to get the OD just right.

Image

Image.

The tool worked a treat and after combining its use with some finger depth tests on the exposed clutch lining perimeter was easily satisfied and confident with the final position and torqued up.

Unfortunately, I forgot to take pictures of the new O/S and N/S driveshaft seals I put onto the gearbox, but below is the new clutch bearing affixed to the repaired fork and resting on the new input shaft seal.

Image

The gearbox then went back onto the engine via a trolley jack from underneath. Once I got the position and angle correct within the engine bay (about an hour of struggle), the gearbox could be lifted into position and popped on in about five minutes.

Hope this helps anyone needing to do similar on a C15. But the van now drives a treat, and in the end, I enjoyed the challenge.

PS - The clutch assy (bearing, pressure plate and lining) was from GSF.
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Post by flying clutchman »

I have to admire your ingenuity and persistance in making your aligning tool, but it's easier to just align by sight. If you do the clutch up finger tight and align the flywheel centre, clutch centre and diaphragm rim so that they're concentric you will have a near perfect alignment in about 30 secs.
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Post by frenchcarnut »

flying clutchman wrote:I have to admire your ingenuity and persistance in making your aligning tool, but it's easier to just align by sight. If you do the clutch up finger tight and align the flywheel centre, clutch centre and diaphragm rim so that they're concentric you will have a near perfect alignment in about 30 secs.
I tried that, but I couldn't get my line of sight right. I wear specs these days too, so just wasn't confident getting it right by leaning into the engine bay. The plumbing took me about 15 minutes, so I was pretty happy with the end result and it allowed me to keep checking. I've also got the tool to hand over should I sell the vehicle or come a cropper again.
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