Xantia HDI 110 Clutch slave kaputt..

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CitroJim
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Post by CitroJim » 06 Mar 2010, 17:19

The rod should stay in to be able to replace it back in the bell-housing. It may not if the clutch pedal is on the floor though. Try supporting the pedal as high as it will go and then push the rod in.

I consider bubbles in the reservoir to be a very good sign. This is air being expelled :D That should help bleed it.

Here is a picture of the inside of an ML5 bell-housing showing the back of the release arm. There is a lump by the "spoon" but it should be well clear of the bellhousing itself.

Image

If it touches, then the release arm is incorrectly placed in it's bearings.

The picture is of a scrap gearbox that has been out in the rain, hence the white corrosion. One day I'll get around to taking it to bits...

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Chris570
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Post by Chris570 » 06 Mar 2010, 17:57

just a thought but is this any good for you?
http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/Citro ... de011&CSCY

i3
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Post by i3 » 06 Mar 2010, 22:05

hey Chris, i don't think that part will suit this system..is that right Jim?
Jim,, ok i will have another try tomorrow at getting the rod to stay in the cylinder.. Although i did already tie the clutch pedal up with a string to the steering wheel..so i think i will just have to use more force...right?? Or is there a certain technique to it?
hmmm...im not 100%,,but im fairly certain that the release arm must be fitted incorrectly then..because im sure that piece lump sticking out from the "spoon" thing is touching the side of the bellhousing.....i think, that lump bit is like sticking out towards the front end of the car...is that correct? Or should it be sticking out towards a different direction? I will check and confirm tomorrow....
i don't mean to be a pest,, but whenever you can,,if you could please take a picture of that bellhousing you have,,but from the other side,,like through the hole where the cylinder fits..just so i can compare it with my pic to see if my bit has been fitted correctly..

i3
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Post by i3 » 06 Mar 2010, 22:07

or...if you could just tell from the pic that i have posted to see if the "spoon"/lump bit is in the correct position... Thanks

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CitroJim
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Post by CitroJim » 06 Mar 2010, 23:03

I just been out in the dark and taken this:

Image

This is looking directly into the slave cylinder hole. The nub on the end of the spoon comes close but should clear the bellhousing by a good quarter inch I reckon.

The slave cylinder as posted by Chris may just do but I cannot guarantee it'll surely fit. It has a bleed nipple but I'd not be sure if the pipe connection is the same or if different, how you'd go about connecting it. I may be worth a gamble though...

As for a knack to pushing the rod in, I don't know as luckily I've never had to do it but I'm sure with the pedal tied up and the rod inserted hard, maybe twisting at the same time, it should stay put otherwise you could never install it.

No worries about being a pest, it's what these forums are all about. We'll keep trying until we get you sorted out!

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Post by xmexclusive » 06 Mar 2010, 23:53

The XM 2.5 slave cylinder comes new with a plastic retaining clip for the push rod. The plastic clip is left in place on assembly and snaps off on first clutch application. During disassembly the foot pedal is to be wedged in the raised position and the rod retained in the slave cylinder using cable ties or similar.

John

HDI Dave
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Post by HDI Dave » 08 Mar 2010, 15:04

Hey all,car's been running great so not been on.

Now then, i3, (what's your name, i'll never remember i3 etc lol). After reading the info, it looks to me that you may if you're lucky, just have the same headache i ended up with, ie, just the slave bleeding dilemma.I could also move the clutch pedal up and down,like you can now...
You say your pic isn't the same as mine - it is. When the clutch goes bang,or thud,it releases pressure on the slave pushrod (thing with the plastic on the end), and it flies out..mine did,it was in 2 parts,like yours.And your pic on page 4? shows the same cylinder,with no nipple,(see my pic below,mine and a 'pattern' one ) - you will have to drift\tap that metal pin out the end of the slave cylinder to be able to bleed it.

Seems ages since i did it but hopefully we'll get you problem sorted.
From what i remember, with the slave out of the gearbox, if everything is ok inside there should be very little movement of the 'spoon' thing,and it can't be pushed in by hand,that to me sounds correct, so i'd go with the easier bleed option first,or it's a gearbox off jobby.

I'm quite sure i just put my old slave back together,without using any parts from the new 'pattern' cylinder that i aquired, i'll check later,as that's in the car boot or shed somewhere! I do know that i needed a new pushrod,the plastic was mashed,both ends should be smooth,like a billiard cue iirc, yours looks damaged - scrappers? i remember citroen were dear £££.

The bleeding was surprisingly quite straight forward,and my first citroen! lol. Me and the wife did it, she did the pedal bit and i kept an eye on the fluids, not sure if you have to keep an eye on the bulkhead reservoir, as we are back filling \ syringing the fluid into the said reservoir.The main part of the bodge, (ooh i love a good bodge :D ) is to:
get that slave cylinder full of fluid,finger over the end of the slave,back fill \ syringe fluid into the pipe going to the bulkhead reservoir,which will remove bags of air,when the reservoire is full and no more bubbles are blurting out (use plenty rags round it ) again,finger over the pipe end you've just syringed up. Then quickly mate the pipe to the slave whilst someone presses the clutch pedal slowly,so air can't get in, and there you go, a sealed system,with no air,which citroen say is unbleadable..pah.

HDI Dave wrote:
Top, is a new/pattern slave,but with a bleed nipple.. don't fit.Needs a different connector in the top of it (to the fluid pipe)

Bottom,my original slave cylinder, (pushrod plastic goosed,after thrust release bearing went a.w.o.l ) - no bleed nipple.

So..can I re use the old one (slave cylinder)?
Looks like a 3 handed job,so the pushrod don't push out on re assembly etc :?

Image
Hope this is of some use to you and please get back to us all with any info,

Dave.

i3
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Post by i3 » 08 Mar 2010, 17:46

hey Dave..thanks..and hopefully it will be just a bleeding that sorts it......
you know that new style cylinder pictured with the nipple....well...i was wondering...is the pushrod from that is suitable to use with the old slave cylinder?? as Chris posted a link to where Eurocarparts are selling the new cylinder...and the scrappies round where i am dont have any 2.1 xantias...so not sure where to get the pushrod from...??? short of getting a new complete system at £200!!
oh..and...pleased to hear your cars been running great Dave :D

xmexclusive
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Post by xmexclusive » 08 Mar 2010, 19:52

Just a note about sourcing the correct replacement parts.
There are 3 different versions of the Xantia hydraulic clutch drive slave cylinder. Two similar looking old "non bleedable" types and then the new "bleedable" one. The change over dates are: Type 1 / RPO 6951 / Type 2 / RPO 8001 / Type 3. The main difference between the Type 1 and Type 2 is the push rod length (old 95mm long / new 107mm long). To suit this longer push rod the slave cylinder fixing boss is made 19mm longer and the gearbox housing modified. With the change to Type 2 the Type 1 was withdrawn as a spare part and the Type 2 then supplied with both lengths of push rod so the correct one could be selected for use.
Sorry no information yet on the length of the Type 3 push rod.

John

HDI Dave
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Post by HDI Dave » 08 Mar 2010, 20:59

i3 wrote: ...and the scrappies round where i am dont have any 2.1 xantias...so not sure where to get the pushrod from...??? short of getting a new complete system at £200!!
Are you just looking at 2.1 xantias? Well my xant is a 2.0 and there's plenty around, might be worth a look in the scrappers, taking your old pushrod as a measurement.
And,deja vue moment kicking in lol, my mate asked at Citroen dealer for the 'proper' cylinder and pipes,for his car year, and they quoted 200 quid ish, i was there.
When it turned up,it was the newer version,in my pic,with the nipple...the system we wanted was 400 notes :shock:
That's when my mate threw the towel in and i bought it.

Anyway, i can't find the pattern cylinder to see if i cannibalized it...then my above pic smacks me in the face...
My mate had also bought the pushrod,from citroen,or GSF,i can't remember,about 25 quid. Look at my pic, the nakt one is on the left,plastic broken off. I put the new pushrod in my old slave, (look,the new pattern slave is still brand new,complete and untouched ). Then just push the rod in a bit and put the rubber tube thing and plastic end back on.It holds it fine iirc and when filled with fluid locates bang on to the 'spoon' thing.

p.s, it could still be your gearbox, but it looks like you need a new pushrod anyway, so you've nowt to lose anyway have you pal :)

i3
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Post by i3 » 10 Mar 2010, 20:32

hey,, ive got a new slave cylinder...just the like the one you have pictured Dave... how do i take the pushrod out of the new one to fit it in the old one?

HDI Dave
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Post by HDI Dave » 11 Mar 2010, 12:47

Please clarify a few points.

1.) Have you got a brand new slave cylinder, like in the top of my picture? If so it's no good.

2.) or have you got a new 'old' cylinder,from the scrappers etc,the same as your original, and my cylinder, shown in the bottom of the picture? If so, why can't you just use this one...is your slave damaged?

If you have a new pushrod in a cylinder,still not taken apart, how did you measure it,against your old broken one? I'm confused!

I didn't use the pushrod from the new cylinder, (top of pic)..my mate bought a separate pushrod from citroen or gsf...so i used that.

The pushrod should just pull out of the replacement cylinder,unless you have bought a new one,with the plastic cap still on?
And as i said before, put the rubber tube thing and plastic end back on, and the pushrod can then simply be pushed into the slave, iirc.

i3
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Post by i3 » 11 Mar 2010, 16:04

darn!!! i bought a new one like the new one at the top in your pic.... i misunderstood.... looks like i have to keep looking for another then

i3
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Post by i3 » 15 Mar 2010, 16:28

im not having any luck in finding a suitable slave cylinder from any of the scrappies around Oxfordshire.....any suggestions....?

HDI Dave
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Post by HDI Dave » 15 Mar 2010, 17:17

You can buy the pushrod separately,from citroen or gsf etc

...and use your own,original slave...or is it damaged?

That's what i did.

or try find a connector for the top of your new slave cylinder which you could connect the fluid pipe to?

I couldn't be bothered ^ and seeing as i had a brand new pushrod i just used that...simples!