Xantia HDI 110 Clutch slave kaputt..

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CitroJim
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Post by CitroJim » 18 Feb 2010, 11:57

Am I going bonkers?

I could have sworn I saw an earlier, separate, post made by you i3 on the subject of your clutch and it now seems to have merged into this thread :?

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Post by i3 » 18 Feb 2010, 17:08

citrojim, i actually first posted here,, then i decided to make a new topic, which has now disappeared :? .....
so...basically guys... m i right in assuming that the solution is that the clutch needs bleeding?...but there is no bleed nipple on this one..? so,, how exactly would it be done? follow the example on the by hdidave? thanks guys

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Post by CitroJim » 18 Feb 2010, 18:04

Yes, that disappearing Post is a mystery i3 :roll: :?

Yes, no bleed nipple on the slave cylinder so Dave's method is the only way.

The whole assembly is one of those "sealed for life" jobs. If bought new, they come in two parts, separated at the blue bullet connector. You install both ends and pop the bullet together and that's it. job done.

Replacing the master cylinder is an absolute dockyard job and to be avoided if at all possible :evil:

Problem is, the blue bullet won't come apart again and to renew the whole assembly will cost the debt of a small nation. They are very expensive so having a go at bleeding is worthwhile...

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Post by i3 » 18 Feb 2010, 18:14

ok.... is there any chance you could break down Daves method for me into a simple step by step please?? only thing is.. i assume he was talking to people who knew what was going on..im not one of them! the thing is im actually getting nowhere with the mechanics...theyre claiming that they have successfully completed the job.. to the extent that they are not even answering my calls now!! i would like to give it a shot myself, with a mate of mine who works in a garage assisting.... if its too much of a hassle, no worries... im sure ill eventually manage it using Daves posts... thanks Jim

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Post by RichardW » 18 Feb 2010, 22:06

I'm not convinced that bleeding this clutch is what is required. Re-reading the posts, it sounds like the garage broke a HP suspension or power steering pipe not the clutch pipe. A replacement appears to have been sourced from a 1.9TD, so it can't have been to do with the clutch hydraulics (which aren't fitted to the 1.9TD). So, I would do the follwing: remove the slave cylinder from the gearbox (easy, just turn it 90° one way or the other then pull it out). Check for evidence of leaking clutch fluid on the slave. If you've brave you could carefully get an assistant to press the pedal a little bit to see if the slave moves - DO NOT press it all the way down rapidly, or you will eject the slave piston and be in real trouble. Now look or feel in the hole left by the slave, to find the release fork, and gently push on it - if the release bearing is properly engaged then you shouldn't be able to push the lever. If the release bearing is not engaged then you could try pulling on the lever using some sort of hooked tool (what did you use Jim?) to see if it will engage. If it won't, then it's probably box off time again.....

PS there's info about the release bearing and a diagram of the clutch half way down the page on this thread: Hyd clutch info

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Post by myglaren » 18 Feb 2010, 22:20

CitroJim wrote:Yes, that disappearing Post is a mystery i3 :roll: :?

Yes, no bleed nipple on the slave cylinder so Dave's method is the only way.

The whole assembly is one of those "sealed for life" jobs. If bought new, they come in two parts, separated at the blue bullet connector. You install both ends and pop the bullet together and that's it. job done.

Replacing the master cylinder is an absolute dockyard job and to be avoided if at all possible :evil:

Problem is, the blue bullet won't come apart again and to renew the whole assembly will cost the debt of a small nation. They are very expensive so having a go at bleeding is worthwhile...
I've PM'd i3 on that Jim.

As the question had already begun to receive attention here I deleted the other (duplicate) threads to avoid the answers being spread over several threads.

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Post by CitroJim » 18 Feb 2010, 22:29

I've read it again Richard as I'm terrible for speed-reading and missing something..

I3 says this:
car was still not driving properly with clutch, as its to do with the broken pipe. i finally managed to source the right pipe from a cit breakers in essex after getting the wrong one off a 1.9td from local scrappy. now they have fitted the pipe outside my house. but the clutch is still the same, the pedal goes straight to the floor and stays there, i can pull it back up by hand, but the clutch doesnt actually do anything. i still cant put it in gear without jumping it, then driving using the revs to ease in gears.
He mentions power steering but only by-the-by...

i3 wrote:is there any chance you could break down Daves method for me into a simple step by step please??
Dave explains it pretty well really and not having done this job in anger, I cannot really add to it except to say i can follow it and see precisely what he is saying.

One thing bothers me. You entrusted your car for repair, presumably to a bona-fide trader, and he did not deliver what he promised and damaged your car. He is in breach of his part of the contract between you and he and therefore you have reasonable grounds for complaint and recompense. You should not have to take the car to another repairer at your expense, especially if you have paid, and certainly should not have to come to a forum to find out how to do the job so that you can direct the garage in doing the job. Several carts are before the horse here.

Am I correct in my reading of the situation? If you do take the car elsewhere, for goodness sake ensure that mechanic knows what to do to repair the problem. A Citroen/Peugeot Indy or at least a Citroen/Peugeot-savvy mechanic is needed.

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Post by CitroJim » 18 Feb 2010, 22:30

myglaren wrote: As the question had already begun to receive attention here I deleted the other (duplicate) threads to avoid the answers being spread over several threads.
Thanks Steve :D My sanity is intact then! I really thought I was loosing it this morning :lol: :lol: :D

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Post by myglaren » 18 Feb 2010, 22:33

Did it quickly on my way out this morning before the two unanswered threads attracted any replies but hadn't time to notify anyone. Sorry :(

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Post by RichardW » 18 Feb 2010, 22:42

CitroJim wrote: I've read it again Richard as I'm terrible for speed-reading and missing something..
Me too, seemingly, since I read they HAD fitted the pipe from the 1.9TD... :oops: Need some more diag info from I3.....

Was it a hydraulic pipe (ie no brakes / PAS on way home)?
Is there any noise when pressing the clutch when the engine is running?
Is there any evidence of fluid leakage from bellhousing indicating failure of the clutch slave?
If try to engage gear with engine running, presume box graunches?

I agree though, Jim, that the garage should have sorted it - but they clearly do not have the tools / skills to do so. Find out what's wrong with it, then take the info the gargage ask if they are prepared to fix (FOC of course!), if not, 'suggest' they refund cost of work done, if not small claims court....

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Post by i3 » 19 Feb 2010, 02:39

ok... im sorry for the confusion and not being clearer in my posts...
the mechanics managed to break the high pressure pipe going from the power steering pump, all the way round the engine,, to i dont know what exactly... got the wrong one off a 1.9td, so it didnt fit right, so then i got the right one off a 2.1td which has been fitted now....
there is no noise when pressing the clutch pedal,,, it just goes to the bottom with no resistance and sits there,,i can bring it back up by hand....
i havent tried to engage gear properly with engine running...but it does feel like if i push the gear with force it will crunch....
i havent checked to see if there is signs of fluid leakage on bellhousing,,will try this afternoon,,,i havent much of a clue where to check though,, but will try and see if i can find out....
and i havent taken it to a second garage yet...i cant actually get hold of the mechanics who carried out the work,,theyre not answering my phone calls,, i actually got through today calling from a mates number,,but the man recognised my voice,cut the call off, and turned off his ...i cant even find them at the garage as theyre not there anymore! theyve moved out i think,, as the garage always appears closed now,,,.

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Post by RichardW » 19 Feb 2010, 09:00

Good info on the diagnostic. Bad news on the garage.... :cry:

OK, Next job then is to get the slave out and have a look at it. If you take the air cleaner box out, it should be obvious underneath on the top front of the gearbox. Post up a pic if not, and we can hi-light it.

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Post by CitroJim » 19 Feb 2010, 10:42

Oh dear, what a terrible story i3 :(

Sounds like the original garage has cut and run on you...

I hope a bleed of the hydraulics will do the job. I just hope the garage properly fitted the release bearing when they did the gearbox change. If the release bearing is not correctly installed then you'll get the same symptoms.

It's worth a look at this thread where on page two it describes how to install the clutch release bearing and the pitfalls therein.

Any issues in this area will quickly be apparent on removal of the slave cylinder as Richard advises. The release arm will be rather floppy if the bearing is not properly home.

Otherwise and hopefully, a bleeding session will fix it.

One thing that Dave did not mention in his procedure was the need to keep the master cylinder reservoir well topped up. This takes normal brake fluid (not LHM) but access is poor.

It is up under the bulkhead. This shot shows where it is on an Activa, which uses the same clutch and is just as inaccessible as a 2.1TD. The reservoir cover should clip off...

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Good luck and I hope this has a happy ending. The 2.1TD is a very good model and worth getting fully sorted out. I had one for a long while.

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Post by i3 » 21 Feb 2010, 17:46

ok... i think i have found the clutch fluid reservoir...i got it open and it was full of fluid... i also took out the air filter box,and i have taken some pics...but i dont know how to post them up here...[/img]

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Post by i3 » 21 Feb 2010, 18:09

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