Xantia HDI 110 Clutch slave kaputt..

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lexi
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Post by lexi »

And I was under the impression that the hydraulic system was a step better than the cable and troublesome plastic connector of the 1.9td. It would have been had the parts been Generic.

It`s probably just the price you pay for an in house custom design that works very well on 99% of occasions but is a pig on the one per cent failures. It is a lovely light clutch action on HDI.
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Post by HDI Dave »

xmexclusive wrote:Hi Dave

The old end looks just like the Cit XM/PUG 605 2.5TD hydraulic drive except that those have a permanently fitted feed pipe. Those fit a MG5T gearbox.
I suspect that the new on you have is to fit the later MLT5 gearbox.

John
Yes John, you are spot on.It was a sealed unit, my mate drifted the pin out of the slave to separate it from the pipe fitting.
Seems this is an early / crossover model.
Trying to figure out how to get the (old)slave back in the engine without it all flying out (pushrod) etc
..and then bleed it..with no nipple...!
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Post by xmexclusive »

Hi Lexi

Of course every Citroen part is Generic just like DNA. A cynic would say all just at least a fraction different at the designers whim. Even if they use the same part on a different model they often give them different part numbers. My favourite so far is identical oil filters differing by one number in the part code and having the OEM supplier print Citroen on one type and Peugeot on the other. Does make cross checking part suitability an irritating process. What really gets me though is higher prices for the same item just because that model has a much lower item useage and Stealer obstruction when you try to source the cheaper item.

John
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Post by xmexclusive »

Hi Dave

Think I have a gash bottom end with the rod/baynot holder intact that can with one of the spare 2.5 engines. Will look it out if I can find it. At the top end a resovoir clips to the clutch pedal lever, awkward to to but the sealed for life top unclips for refilling. Think there is a large pipe joint near the front bulkhead with a pair of pistons separating the top half of the fluid from the engine bay section. This make refilling the hydraulic fluid a two stage job.

John
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Post by HDI Dave »

Ok,
Managed to get the 'old' slave cylinder back together and in the car.
Had to hold it vertical,filled with brake fluid,then put the fluid pipe back on, then into the bellhousing,90* clockwise etc.
Got the top off the 'sealed' ahem, reservoir and it was empty.Half filled it.Clutch pedal can be moved up + down to the floor by hand,no resistance. So I've left it with the top off,to see if air bubbles bleed out.
But..near the reservoir (at the bulkhead)the fluid pipe goes down.
Image

How will the air bubbles float downwards :?

Any ideas,tips chaps?

At least the slave is back in the engine, so I'm chuffed with that :)
Last edited by HDI Dave on 21 May 2009, 11:51, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by DickieG »

As you have the older version which is supplied pre-filled and no bleed nipple, your only option may be to remove the hose from the slave cylinder, pump through brake fluid then whilst fluid is flowing quickly re-connect the hose, messy yes, with the potential of air bubbles within but it may get it working to a degree until a better solution is found or the air is 'worked' up to the reservoir.
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Post by HDI Dave »

Hi DG,
Yes,that's the same kind of fix I'm thinking of.Can't see why it wouldn't work.

Cheers, Dave
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Post by HDI Dave »

Update,

I have some clutch :D

Was thinking same as Dickie and kip:
"The slave cylinder is now accessible. It is a bayonet fit into the bell housing so you just need to push in and turn. Bit like a radiator cap

Once the slave is out drill, out the pin that holds the pipe in place. This can be replaced with a M3 30mm nut and bolt, or some other 3mm pin.

Important!!. There is a quad ring (a type of O-ring) that will probably have stayed in the end of the slave. Carefully remove this, and keep it safe. If you try to fit the tube back into the slave without removing it and fitting to the tube you will most likely cut the Quad ring. I did! They are almost impossible to find. I ended up having to work out an alternative which, took some trial and error and extended the repair from an afternoon to a week.

I then took a syringe and filled the slave to over flowing and pushed fluid back up the pipe.

Connected the slave and pipe together using a wet connection, ie the fluid was dribbling out the end as I put it together."

I put a clear pipe on the end of the cable nipple (which fits into the slave).
Took 5 syringes of fluid, (polo mint packet size syringe) , must have been a lot of air in there.
Still next to no travel/clutch.
So took the pipe back off the slave and held it near, tight, and bled from the pedal end.

Now car is driveable but needs further bleeding.

:D :D
1999 Xantia LX 2.0 HDI 110 Rusteration project...
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Post by HDI Dave »

Wahay,
I am having a good day :D

Got the clutch working nearly fine, (might have got all the air out,maybe I'm being picky,maybe it's because it's a brand new clutch,so feels different etc, dunno!),got the car all back together..and..
..she passed the MOT with flying colours, just the test fee :D
...even with the ABS light on (I've traced it to the OSF wheel) Thanks to another poster for the info / pic (I'll find member info and edit :wink: ).
*edit -
http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... hp?t=26012
sussed it 1st time..an I'm cr@p with electrics :mrgreen:

Insured now,tax her tomorrow,nuther double chevron saved 8-)
Last edited by HDI Dave on 08 May 2011, 14:22, edited 1 time in total.
1999 Xantia LX 2.0 HDI 110 Rusteration project...
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Post by i3 »

hey, i know its a long shot trying to get a response on this post as its been so long, but i gotta try. i have a R-reg 2.1td vsx manual. one evening i was parked up going through the min max settings on the hydraulics, i set it back to normal setting and drove off,,, i drove about 5metres and the gear just like sort of made a thud noise(i think, cant remember exactly cause its been a few months, and like the gear popped out of 1, i put back in but it wouldnt drive,, it would just make some sorta grinding noise sounding like it was coming from the front of the car. parked it up. it would go into every gear but when i lift the clutch pedal to biting point it would start the grinding noise, and if i accelerate it would make the grinding noise louder,, until it completely stopped grinding that is and went into each gear but did nothing. i tried jumping it in first,,noothing. so i took it to mechanics. they said its gearbox, so i got them a new gearbox from a 2.0 hdi, they said it was wrong one so i got them another gearbox from a 2.1td 406, they fitted it but then said whilst removing box, they broke the high pressure hydraulic pipe. than the mechanic said that clutch was also gone along with the gearbox, so i sourced a used one off a 2.1td. after two months i went to the garage one night and got in my car jumped it in 1st and drove it home with no power steering. the mechanics said the car was still not driving properly with clutch, as its to do with the broken pipe. i finally managed to source the right pipe from a cit breakers in essex after getting the wrong one off a 1.9td from local scrappy. now they have fitted the pipe outside my house. but the clutch is still the same, the pedal goes straight to the floor and stays there, i can pull it back up by hand, but the clutch doesnt actually do anything. i still cant put it in gear without jumping it, then driving using the revs to ease in gears. did i get totally scammed by the mechanics? it does feel like it but i didnt want to be hard on them as they seem like a really small business just struggling to make ends meet. any solutions on what the problem is and what the solution may be? any help appreciated. note: at the beginning of the problem the clutch would work as it would go in gear but wouldnt drive, it must have been working as it initially started grinding at the biting point on the clutch, which shows that there was something operating within the clutch right?.. oh did i mention i purchased the car three days prior to having the problems... its been off road ever since then... i definitely am not giving up on it despite everybody i know having a go at me for buying a citroen, especially an old one.. well i like it an am keeping it as long as i can hopefully!
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Post by Toby_HDi »

CitroJim wrote:There may be one available on the Activa that is being broken in Wellingborough. See the Activa section of this forum for details.
Activa, being broken, in Wellingborough?? Have I missed this? Though I bet all the parts I'm after have gone.

EDIT: Just seen the date of that post :oops:

Shame that I needed some bits :lol:
Toby


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Post by Sl4yer »

Hi i3.

Sounds like an initial gearbox fault (just selector cables?), and now a clutch fault (possibly caused by the garage). I'm curious though - assuming this is a Xantia, did you really drive it without power steering? And managed to stop?

James
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Post by i3 »

yes, it is an xantia.. 2.1td vsx manual... i was desperate and i thought the garage were taking me for a ride,, and then i threatened not to pay them for the entire job when i got a little too impatient with them(after round 6-7weeks though),,, and they threatened to get some people to come and take the car for scrap metal... so i was like,,,ok,,, try it... so i went round midnight,, and it was parked outside the garage.... so i jumped it and i was away... i spoke to an old family friend whos been a mechanic for like,,,ever! and i asked him if i will be able to drive it..he just looked at me and pointed to his biceps... so i thought..oh welll..i wanna get te car home...so i gotta do it... i oonly had to make a complete stop 3times... once at home... and once i couldnt get it out of gear so i just cut the ignition,,, going at like 1mph though,,, and the other,, just slipped into neutral,,, turned off,,then jumped it when i had to go...... not planning on doing it again though!.... any ideas what maybe the fault now? as i said..pedal can be pushed down,,but stays there,, gotta bring it up by hand.... now... if i know exactly whats causing it... i can tell the mechanic...and he will have to do it... as i already paid him for the complete job now.... but at the moment they havent a clue... thanks
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Post by xmexclusive »

Hi i3

If it is like the XM 2.5TD hydraulic clutch there is a special proceedure to assemble the clutch thrust bearing loose from the clutch cover plate on renewing the clutch. A rod tool is then used through the hydraulic clutch drive fitting hole to engage the clutch fork and thrust bearing. Only then is the clutch hydraulic drive cylinder fitted to the hole in the clutch case.
With the 2.5 MG5T box if you reassemble with the thrust bearing already installed in the clutch cover plate you get exactly your symptoms because the thrust bearing is not engaged properly in the clutch fork.

John
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Post by CitroJim »

Hi i3 and welcome :D

Indeed, as John says, the hydraulic clutch has traps for the unwary and one of the biggest is loosing the clutch slave cylinder push rod and letting in air.

Sounds like, amongst other things, this is what has happened.

Many garages are not aware and don't understand at all how this pull clutch works.

Try bleeding it as HDI Dave has done although on the 2.1TD you'll find the clutch master cylinder somewhat inaccessible. You may have to remove the top part of the inlet manifold to give more access.

Would have been interesting to have known what failed in the original gearbox. They're pretty bullet-proof normally.
Jim

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