XUD engine problem

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

steelcityuk
Posts: 1053
Joined: 03 Jul 2006, 21:51
Location: not applicable
My Cars: not applicable
x 1

Post by steelcityuk »

Is this the hidden cost of using WVO? I can't say because the furthest I got was using SVO in the 2.5TD but I stopped doing that when the cost rose to more than Bio and then I switched over to that.

Is filtering enough to ensure that the fuel is safe?

I'm not criticising just wondering.

Steve.
not applicable
sludgerunner
Posts: 12
Joined: 19 Nov 2011, 10:14
Location:
My Cars:

Re:

Post by sludgerunner »

crossy2425 wrote:Update.

I couldnt trace the fault, so I sourced a second hand pump...a fully mechanical one.
This has sorted the problem, so I have a car again.

Hi, sorry to dig up the past, this is "exactly" how my car seems... with same semi-elec pump...

what primative pump did you get, or from what car can i find a fully mechanical one, im not bothered about air-con woes....

Kindest of regards

Trevor
User avatar
Xaccers
Posts: 7654
Joined: 07 Feb 2007, 23:46
Location: Milling around Milton Keynes
My Cars:
x 184

Re: Re:

Post by Xaccers »

sludgerunner wrote:
crossy2425 wrote:Update.

I couldnt trace the fault, so I sourced a second hand pump...a fully mechanical one.
This has sorted the problem, so I have a car again.

Hi, sorry to dig up the past, this is "exactly" how my car seems... with same semi-elec pump...

what primative pump did you get, or from what car can i find a fully mechanical one, im not bothered about air-con woes....

Kindest of regards

Trevor
The semi-electric pump uses two sensors to adjust the timing; needle lift on one of the injectors (2nd from the cam belt) and the TDC sensor on the back of the gearbox which reads the flywheel.
Jenny had a faulty needle lift sensor when I first got her, so sometimes she'd start fine and run smooth as silk, other times she'd sound like a bag of nails.
Replaced the faulty injector and all is well.

If you want to go the mechanical pump route, then you'll need the pump from a 93-95 (maybe 96) 1.9TD.
Leave the ECU attached for your tacho, and if you have A/C, remove the green relay in the ECU box.
I'd also refurb the mechanical pump, replacing the seals, before fitting it too.
1.9TD+ SX Xantia Estate (Cassy) running on 100% veg
1.9TD SX Xantia Hatchback (Jenny) running on 100% veg for sale
Laguna II 2.0dCi Privilege (Monty)

DIY sphere tool
sludgerunner
Posts: 12
Joined: 19 Nov 2011, 10:14
Location:
My Cars:

Re: XUD engine problem

Post by sludgerunner »

Thanks for the info,

i run a breakers on the IOW... and sold my last tdc sensor wednesday from a 306! typical aye...

is there an easy way to check if its the needle lift sensor?.. as i probably i have a draw full of pug/cit injectors to try.

the rev counter has always been ok... (as ive seen people ask for tdc related errors)

just on the off chance.. i also noted that i can pump the primer bulb until ROCK solid... and this has been the norm for about 2 years... :? reading another thread i see that this shouldnt be the case for a bosch.... maybe this has something todo with it?...

just incase your unaware by the username, the car does run the filthyest veg sludge around, and has done for 2 years also (about 25k) ive put on it on pure filth.

i must say, i would just love this thing to have a full on mechanical pump... i have 13 diesel pumps online at present.. and as usual.. not the one i want!...

Thanks for the help any info appreciated...

Kind regards...
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49526
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6160
Contact:

Re: XUD engine problem

Post by CitroJim »

The easy, but not foolproof, way to test a needle lift sensor is to measure its resistance. It should be around 100 ohms. That's for a Bosch one. The Lucas one is different but off-hand I can't now recall what it's resistance is.
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
MPV
Posts: 106
Joined: 27 Sep 2010, 13:11
Location:
My Cars:

Re: XUD engine problem

Post by MPV »

I'm wondering if I've got this problem too.

I have a Synergie XUD with the semi auto Bosch pump. The car always starts fine, but until the turbo comes in at about 2300 rpm, is sounds extremely rattly, like a bad diesel tractor. The other problem is if I put might foot right to the floor on the accelerator, the power drops off. I've spent a fair bit of money getting it looked at and having the timing checked, but it still rattles a lot and it worries me I might be damaging the engine. The other problem is that every now and then, usually once or twice a day the tacho will malfunction and get stuck over to the right, so I have to do the ingition on/off trick to get it to reset.

Any thoughts?
Synergie XUD9 - the "Duck-billed-clatterbus"
Peter.N.
Moderating Team
Posts: 11563
Joined: 02 Apr 2005, 16:11
Location: Charmouth,Dorset
My Cars: Currently:

C5 X7 VTR + Satnav Hdi estate Silver
C5 X7 VTR + Hdi Estate 2008 Red

In the past: 3, CX td Safaris and about 7, XM td estates. Lovely cars.
x 1199

Re: XUD engine problem

Post by Peter.N. »

Sounds as though its running seriously over advanced. I have not heard of any damage being caused by this on XUD engines but I know for a fact it would break the crankshaft on a Perkins 4/108.

Peter
sludgerunner
Posts: 12
Joined: 19 Nov 2011, 10:14
Location:
My Cars:

Re: XUD engine problem

Post by sludgerunner »

im still in a tiz with mine... at the mo...

MPV = from what ive been reading... yours sounds like TDC sensor error... as you mention the tacho playing up...

the problem with mine is... the tacho is fine on mine...

it definately gets very bad and undriveable at 90'c though... pouring black smoke out, have to pull the brown plug off now just so the fans are on full power all of the time!... to keep it cool!!!

have had a rummage under there today.. and found the following... rear of the fuel filter housing is a 1 pin lime green plug that is spinning (obv broken)

would this give any indication to the pump for timing temperatures? and be why mine chucking black smoke out at 90c... but as soon as it gets low (70-80c) it quietens down and normal running resumes?

i unplugged the tdc on mine today... made NAFF all difference to the engine note... but when i gave it a gentle rev... the tacho stuck for a second and then resumed...

couldnt get to the #3 lift sensor to unplug that to see what happened.

as predicted.. again i got a call to recover a crash damaged pug today.... 306 1.9 td estate (wahoo....) then found out lucas system... (booo) as i thought i would have another pump to put on....

I noticed straight away that the green plug that i need for my 406 is lime green 1 pin... and the one on 306 is a green 2 pin... grrr...

gonna swap the tdc sensors over tommorow and see if that cures my 90c extreme clatter...
and find a 1 pin lime green sensor.. even if it means going to pug!

sounds more like a austin maestro 1.3 about to seize is the only way to describe the clatter.... certainly not the usual xud clatter...

i thought... on way home,.. right no one behind me... plant foot on accell for 20 seconds and either it will blow up.. or clear the clatter... niether... it resulted in a dark cloud of fog... extreme clattering, and temperature went high high high... pulled over.. waited for it to cool down... coasted down a hill... got guage back to about 80c.. normal running returned... if driven gently...

this is barmy to me... its like.. damned if you do.. dammed if you dont...

I cant start the bleeding thing without easystart in a morning, cranks over and over and over and doesnt want to fire... if it gets up to temp then i have to pull over... if i go up hills i have to take a run up... if its too cold it sucks the plunger in cos the veg is too thick...

all in all...im thinking... this car has 10month mot on it... everyone says scrap it.. but im going to persevere.. out of ignorance!

if the tdc and the temp sensor dont cure it then im going to check the lift sensor.. and order a 92-95 fully mechanical pump.

if that doesnt cure it, then its head off time.....
MPV
Posts: 106
Joined: 27 Sep 2010, 13:11
Location:
My Cars:

Re: XUD engine problem

Post by MPV »

Sledgerunner, what car have you got?
Synergie XUD9 - the "Duck-billed-clatterbus"
User avatar
Old-Guy
Posts: 1798
Joined: 11 Sep 2008, 12:08
Location: Gloucestershire
My Cars: 2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
x 17

Re: XUD engine problem

Post by Old-Guy »

Your overheating problem could simply be that the thermostat has failed - it only opens slightly.

You can instantly tell that a Xantia has the fully mechanical Bosch pump by the absence of an ECU on the O/S inner wing.

BTW if you're breaking an XUD with a clean (no oil) cooling system, I'm in need of an oil cooler at a sensible price..... :)
2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
sludgerunner
Posts: 12
Joined: 19 Nov 2011, 10:14
Location:
My Cars:

Re: XUD engine problem

Post by sludgerunner »

MPV - 97/406.... is what im trying to fix as its my usual "daily runner" because it runs on crap! :)

i have quite a few pugs and cit's im breaking at the min (about 14) if anyone was after specific parts just pm me anytime.

didnt have time today to sort the 1pin temp sensor or swap the cranksensor... but i have them now at least.... lol
Andymccabe13
New User
Posts: 2
Joined: 07 Jan 2012, 15:09
Location:
My Cars:

Re: XUD engine problem

Post by Andymccabe13 »

My Pug 406 1.9td is the same with the electro advance pump, I think it is a dodgy TDC sensor but its intermittent so every time i try to test it... yep you guessed, it runs fine so I'm going to buy one from LVW for £22 inc vat and hope it cures it. I'm pretty sure it is the TDC as every time i engine brake the rev counter dies and if i touch the accelerator slightly it springs back to life, my conclusion is its taking the reading from the lift sensor so when i engine brake there is unsifficent fuel to take a reading.

If anyone else has this annoying problem some info would be much appreciated.
Andymccabe13
New User
Posts: 2
Joined: 07 Jan 2012, 15:09
Location:
My Cars:

Re: XUD engine problem

Post by Andymccabe13 »

Old-Guy wrote:Your overheating problem could simply be that the thermostat has failed - it only opens slightly.

You can instantly tell that a Xantia has the fully mechanical Bosch pump by the absence of an ECU on the O/S inner wing.

BTW if you're breaking an XUD with a clean (no oil) cooling system, I'm in need of an oil cooler at a sensible price..... :)
Yep more than likely the timing has nothing to do with temp if anything it would cool the engine due to unburnt fuel.
sludgerunner
Posts: 12
Joined: 19 Nov 2011, 10:14
Location:
My Cars:

Re: XUD engine problem

Post by sludgerunner »

oldguy - email me at gtbreakers@live.co.uk - got plenty of xud parts in at the mo i can direct you to our egay store then do you a FCF discount.


I recall a post on here of someone that turned an as3 pump to full on mechanical... i need "destructions" on how this was done if possible.

my 406 has always run on filtered waste veg... but now when i put diesel in after 10miles its clattery like the timing is advanced (no k-light though)...then as soon as it gets a sip of thicker veg it returns nice and quiet..

If it was fully mechanical then id slacken the pump off and retard it by hand.. but its the as3 pump (semi) any info much appreciated.

All my other problems with the car has gone... (it used to stick in full advance with k-light on and run very hot!) this has gone since i drained the tank off and ran on tesco's KTC SVO for 2 weeks... as soon as i put it in the nearly empty tank, it cleared its self on the way home.. strange eh!
Post Reply