Synergie 1.9TD 2nd Gear Problems

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Gammy leg
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Synergie 1.9TD 2nd Gear Problems

Post by Gammy leg » 28 Jan 2008, 14:59

Chaps,

I am having difficulty selecting 2nd Gear on my Synergie. Symptoms as follows:

1st to 2nd - will go into gear once revs have dropped to about 1100 rpm during gear change

3rd to 2nd - as above

Engine off or idling - cannot select 2nd gear, just won't go in.

Is this likely to be a linkage problem or something more terminal within the gearbox.

Thanks

Gammy

Peter.N.
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Post by Peter.N. » 28 Jan 2008, 22:37

Will it go into 2nd OK when stationary? If so, it could be that your clutch is not disengaging properly. If the problem persists when stationary then it could be a linkage problem. It's unlikely to be a serious gearbox problem.

Sorry, didn't read your post properly!

Gammy leg
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Post by Gammy leg » 28 Jan 2008, 23:22

Thanks for the reply Peter. The problem only affects selection of 2nd gear. I have to wait until the revs are at or around 1000 - 1100rpm before the selector move into 2nd, with some force applied. It generally doesn't 'graunch' into gear when changing from 1st to 2nd but has started to get a little 'crunchy' when going from 3rd to 2nd. All other gears are smooth and easy to select. As I said before, I cannot select 2nd when stationary, either with engine off or idling.
I know that the linkages on this box look a tad complex and have never really had a good look at them, mainly due to lack of good technical info available for this model.

Any advice on linkage and adjustments would be appreciated

Gammy

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Post by Peter.N. » 29 Jan 2008, 12:44

The fact that you have to get the revs right for it to go in would seem to point to the clutch not fully disengaging, Will it go into reverse OK? How far do you have to push the pedal down to disengage the clutch?. The fact that it won't go in when stationary, could be just that it has stopped in the wrong place so the splines are meeting end to end. Does it go into all the other gears OK when stationary?

Gammy leg
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Post by Gammy leg » 29 Jan 2008, 13:18

Peter,

Clutch operation appears normal. Selection of all other gears incl. reverse is smooth and simple ( twas ever thus ). 2nd gear is the only one causing concern.
Would a change of gear oil be beneficial perhaps? I got the car with 40,000 miles on the clock and it has now done 82,000 without new oil.

Thanks again for your input

Gammy

Gammy leg
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Post by Gammy leg » 29 Jan 2008, 13:19

:x
Last edited by Gammy leg on 29 Jan 2008, 18:22, edited 1 time in total.

Gammy leg
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Post by Gammy leg » 29 Jan 2008, 13:20

:?:
Last edited by Gammy leg on 29 Jan 2008, 18:21, edited 1 time in total.

Peter.N.
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Post by Peter.N. » 29 Jan 2008, 15:53

Mmmm. There's not really much that usually goes wrong with a gearbox to cause difficult engagement. If the synchro is good and the clutch dragging, that will stop it, otherwise I think it must be not selecting properly, I don't know if there is any adjustment on the linkage. If it crunches when you change down, that would indicate that the synchro isn't very good on 2nd so shouldn't stop it going in. Can you get it into 2nd gear at all, stationary with the engine running? If so, swich the engine off with it still in gear and see if it will come out easily and then go back in again, if you can't re engage it I would think its a linkage problem.

Gammy leg
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Post by Gammy leg » 31 Jan 2008, 14:33

Peter,

Did as you suggested, vehicle left in 2nd gear and engine switched off. Was able to easily deselect into neutral, but would not then go back into 2nd, regardless of how much abuse was dispensed.
I will have a look at linkage this weekend, floods and gales permitting.

Gammy

toofargone
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Post by toofargone » 18 Feb 2008, 20:34

Hi, Did you ever get the gearbox problem fixed? I have a 2.0 HDi which does something similar.
I have looked at linkage and it seems ok.

Gammy leg
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Post by Gammy leg » 18 Feb 2008, 22:38

Toofargone,

Not yet, too cold & too busy. Will have to get my thermals on this weekend and have a proper look. I will post again when I have a better idea.

Gammy

Gammy leg
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Post by Gammy leg » 27 Apr 2008, 16:31

Men,

Checked the selector linkage today and can confirm that the problem lies internally....... rats!!
Time to get some prices for a recon job.

Gammy

Gammy leg
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Post by Gammy leg » 14 May 2008, 18:07

Have been quoted £995 + vat to remove, recondition and refit. Ouch.... Apparently these boxes are prone to this type of problem although I don't recall ever reading about it on this forum. The symptoms I gave the guy over the phone point to syncromesh issues ( he said ) but I'm not convinced. What I don't get is the fact that I can't select 2nd gear at all when stationary. Surely this can't be syncro related?
What I have discovered during the last few weeks is that if I freewheel slowly whilst trying to select gear, after what seems to be a regular distance the gearstick will just 'pop-in' as it should. If I travel reeeeaally slowly I can actually detect through the gearstick when it is just about to engage. - Can anyone explain this???


ps. I can also carry out clutchless changes from 1st to 2nd quite smoothly if I get the revs just right

I wish I'd paid more attention at gearbox school :) :)

Gammy

Pleiades
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Post by Pleiades » 14 May 2008, 20:40

Hi Gammy.

I am sure that your problem will be the second gear synchro ring, these rings are on the gear itself, they are made from lovely soft alloy and have a tendency to wear. It used to be quite common in the BX gearbox and allways second gear that was the culprit.

The (fairly) good news is that these gearboxes can be stripped without removing the gearbox from the car. Not quite as easy as it sounds but it's just a case of removing the N/S front wheel and wheel arch liner, drain the gearbox, remove the 5th gear cover then remove the 5th gear, undo the ring of bolts and hey presto the gearbox casing comes off, leaving the gear trains exposed.

Then it's not realy that difficult to strip out the gears and replace the worn synchro ring.

As I said it does sound easier than it is, but should not realy take longer than about 4 - 5 hours including coffee breaks!

Having said all this, whats the milage? if it is fairly high and you may be thinking clutch change soon, then it may be just as well to remove the box, change the clutch and strip out the synchro on the bench.

Cheers
Martin.

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CitroJim
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Post by CitroJim » 14 May 2008, 21:58

Pleiades wrote: Then it's not realy that difficult to strip out the gears and replace the worn synchro ring.
Indeed, one of the more straightforward 'boxes Martin :D I'd say the biggest difficulty was getting it back on again after overhauling it :twisted:

Here is a guideto stripping a BE3. A couple of special tools are needed and if you wish to have a shot at it Gammy, I'm happy to lend mine, with the exception of the hydraulic press as postage would be a tad dear :lol: although you are welcome to use it at my place if you're not too far away. The press is pretty much essential for pressing the output shaft assembly apart to get at teh 1st/2nd synchro hub.

If you do go down this road, get any old BE3 'box from a scrappy and practice on that first. They can be picked up for peanuts and might even yield a good 1st/2nd synchro hub. New ones cost an arm and several legs from a stealer, hence the horiffic quote for the job.