Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

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mickthemaverick
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by mickthemaverick »

Have you had a chance to strip down the original box yet Simon? We are all wondering what had happened! :)
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white exec
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by white exec »

A good few vehicles have used ATF-type lubrication for manual gearboxes. Products like Syntrax and Syntrans were classed as Manual Transmission Fluids, after difficulties were found changing gear in cold weather with traditional gearbox oils, back in the '80s.

Added friction additives (!) aside, to make sure that synchromesh mechanisms worked properly (similar to current GL-4 / GL-5 considerations), light gear oil and heavy duty running are not mutually exclusive - Castrol once explained to me that they specified Castrolite (light oil) for some HGV and transporter applications, because of the inherent shear strength.

No synchro in your reduction box, so presumably a wide choice of lubricants. The oil of choice in the highly-loaded Rover V8 5-speed manual box evolved iirc from 75W90, to 75W80, to ATF, to MTFs as they became available.
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Mandrake
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by Mandrake »

Where do I sign up to join the leaky heater matrix club ? #-o

I took the Xantia for a trip to the dump for its first drive in over a month and decided to stretch its legs on the way home, after arriving home I have a significant puddle of bitter tasking liquid on the passenger floor rubber mat. :cry: I can see the source of the leak in the bottom right corner of what I presume is the heater matrix. Luckily the leak seems to be contained on the top of the rubber mat so hasn't actually gone into the carpet.

Forte stop leak was applied about 6 years ago for a very minor drip and has lasted this long but it looks like I can't put off changing the heater matrix any longer!

There is also a rain water leak somewhere on the drivers side of the windscreen that drips down near the brake pedal in heavy rain - there are numerous cracks along the scuttle so it could be getting in anywhere. So I guess it's a perfect opportunity to try to find that leak as well while the dashboard is out.... (are plastic scuttles still available and is it possible to bond a new one ? Or am I better off getting a tube of black sealant and putting a very fine neat bead along between the glass and the scuttle as a simple bodge repair of a part no longer available ?)

Anyone have any pointers on how to do the matrix in a S1 Xantia ? Things like where to find all the bolts and how to disassemble the dashboard etc, any gotchas etc...(steering wheel removal?) believe it or not, I've never changed a heater matrix before in 30 years of driving Citroen's!

Can the car be started and run to test the new matrix and pipes are leak free before the dashboard goes back in ?

Any suggestions of brands of matrix to buy and where to get them now Mr Auto don't sell to the UK anymore ? (Autodoc I guess, although they're painfully slow to send stuff)

Luckily I have the Leaf to drive on a daily basis so I can take my time with this repair and try to find that damn window leak at the same time... :?
RichardW
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by RichardW »

D'oh!!

https://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/ ... hp?t=28512 - Good description from Jim half way down page 2.

Also viewtopic.php?t=52484 [with scary pictures!] In here Paul (citroenxm) suggests you can do it without removing the scuttle, but if you are chasing a water leak that's no matter. CitroenCrazy has a link to a doc, but it's broken, I'll PM him and see if he can send it to me, and I can up load it somewhere.
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myglaren
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by myglaren »

Valeo, I assume is still available in the UK as there is a Valeo warehouse near me.
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by RichardW »

Chevronics have the matrix, and engine side O-rings https://www.chevronics.co.uk/product-ca ... cba1185463
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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Mandrake wrote:
27 Oct 2021, 10:38
Where do I sign up to join the leaky heater matrix club ? #-o

Anyone have any pointers on how to do the matrix in a S1 Xantia ? Things like where to find all the bolts and how to disassemble the dashboard etc, any gotchas etc...(steering wheel removal?) believe it or not, I've never changed a heater matrix before in 30 years of driving Citroen's!

Can the car be started and run to test the new matrix and pipes are leak free before the dashboard goes back in ?
Should you break this very fragile item here, it is apart from a clutch pedal, the only item remaining in my shed from dismantling and scrapping my Xantia's (both series 1.9 TD's) many years ago. You can have it gratis of course, just let me know.

Its the bit and pipework that the heater matrix is connected to on the engine side of the bulkhead.
DSC00778.JPG
DSC00779.JPG
DSC00780.JPG
As far as dismantling to get the matrix out, I abandoned the job seeing as I broke said part (not the one in the pictures) by-passed the matrix connection with some copper tube, and ran the car without a heater from that moment on.

When I dismantled the other car I realised why the Dash proved impossible to remove.

If I recall right there are three dash mounting bolts poking through the bulkhead one at each side and one in the middle. Had missed the one in the middle in my previous unsuccessful attempt to do the heater matrix properly!

Regards Neil
Last edited by NewcastleFalcon on 27 Oct 2021, 12:53, edited 1 time in total.
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white exec
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by white exec »

A good many XM owners have had a similar leak in the corner of the heater matrix, including ours here a few years ago.
Nissens brand comes highly recommended as a replacement.

On XM, which looks to have similar clamping plate arrangement for joining feed pipes to matrix, we found that the pair of single O-rings sizes were likely marginal for the job (not unusual for Citroen O-ring applications), with even new ones providing insufficient seal when clamped. John, Peter and I have all done this repair, and ended up fitting an extra O-ring to each pipe (i.e. two, in contact, on each pipe). Fitting a chubbier O-ring was not an option here, as it prevented insertion of the pipe. Two rings allowed fit, but provided good extra longitudinal sealing and ring compression.

It's not a nice job, but I won't suggest how it should be done on Xantia, because the dash is designed differently.
Hope helpful.
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Mandrake
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by Mandrake »

RichardW wrote:
27 Oct 2021, 11:03
D'oh!!

https://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/ ... hp?t=28512 - Good description from Jim half way down page 2.

Also viewtopic.php?t=52484 [with scary pictures!]
Yes Doh indeed. :( I've had dashboards out in other cars (GS among others) but I don't remember ever having one out of a Xantia even though there have been 4 around in the family over the years...
In here Paul (citroenxm) suggests you can do it without removing the scuttle, but if you are chasing a water leak that's no matter.
I don't understand - why would the outside scuttle need removing to change the heater matrix :?: Or are we talking about something different ?

Regarding the rain water leak I'm talking about the plastic trim that runs all the way across the bottom of the windscreen - in the last couple of years it has developed small cracks all the way across including the drivers side, I'm guessing that's how the rain is getting in...
CitroenCrazy has a link to a doc, but it's broken, I'll PM him and see if he can send it to me, and I can up load it somewhere.
Much appreciated. I don't think I'm going to enjoy this job especially with winter and constant wet weather on the cards! #-o
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Mandrake
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by Mandrake »

NewcastleFalcon wrote:
27 Oct 2021, 11:15
Should you break this very femer item here, it is apart from a clutch pedal, the only item remaining in my shed from dismantling and scrapping my Xantia's (both series 1.9 TD's) many years ago. You can have it gratis of course, just let me know.

Its the bit and pipework that the heater matrix is connected to on the engine side of the bulkhead.
Thanks Neil, I do remember reading that this piece breaks very easily so I will be super careful with it (I'm not in a hurry to complete the job and it will probably get spread over several weekends among other work) but it's good to know that should the worst happen you have one...

However do you know if they are all the same regardless of engine ?
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Mandrake
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by Mandrake »

white exec wrote:
27 Oct 2021, 12:40
On XM, which looks to have similar clamping plate arrangement for joining feed pipes to matrix, we found that the pair of single O-rings sizes were likely marginal for the job (not unusual for Citroen O-ring applications), with even new ones providing insufficient seal when clamped. John, Peter and I have all done this repair, and ended up fitting an extra O-ring to each pipe (i.e. two, in contact, on each pipe). Fitting a chubbier O-ring was not an option here, as it prevented insertion of the pipe. Two rings allowed fit, but provided good extra longitudinal sealing and ring compression.
Thanks for the tip on doubling up the o-rings - I would probably buy spares anyway in case of damage during fitting but now I will definitely get two sets. :)
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Mandrake wrote:
27 Oct 2021, 12:53
However do you know if they are all the same regardless of engine ?
I don't but others may help answer that question, I had an L-reg Chevrons on the bonnet sinker, and an M-reg Chevrons on the grill non-sinker. I think the part was from the M-Reg

Fitted the bonnet from the L reg Sinker to the M-Reg for the double double chevrons and a pleasing 2-tone look! :-D
(to get around the strut spearing the bonnet on the M-Reg)
temp2.JPG
Regards Neil
RichardW
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by RichardW »

Mandrake wrote:
27 Oct 2021, 12:51
RichardW wrote:
27 Oct 2021, 11:03
D'oh!!

https://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/ ... hp?t=28512 - Good description from Jim half way down page 2.

Also viewtopic.php?t=52484 [with scary pictures!]
Yes Doh indeed. :( I've had dashboards out in other cars (GS among others) but I don't remember ever having one out of a Xantia even though there have been 4 around in the family over the years...
Me too, 3 Xantias, 3 leaking matrices, 0 matrices changed!!


In here Paul (citroenxm) suggests you can do it without removing the scuttle, but if you are chasing a water leak that's no matter.

I don't understand - why would the outside scuttle need removing to change the heater matrix :?: Or are we talking about something different ?
Regarding the rain water leak I'm talking about the plastic trim that runs all the way across the bottom of the windscreen - in the last couple of years it has developed small cracks all the way across including the drivers side, I'm guessing that's how the rain is getting in...
Terminology.... we're both talking about the same plastic trim at the base of the screen. Most people remove it, but Paul points out you can, if careful, remove the 3 bolts from under the wiper mech without having to remove it. Since it's bonded to the screen, it's [very] difficult to remove without breaking it or the screen. If yours is already in peril, then you might be left with a pile of pieces, but if you need to re-seal it anyway....


Much appreciated. I don't think I'm going to enjoy this job especially with winter and constant wet weather on the cards! #-o
I'd offer my garage, but it's, er, a bit full!!! :mrgreen: My services are on hand for lifting the dash in / out if required....
Hell Razor5543
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

I recall seeing (here on the forum) that Valeo have the requirement for anybody replacing the heater matrix to then use Forté Stop leak to seal any microleaks (between pipes and matrix) for the warranty to be honoured.
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Mandrake
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Re: Simon's new Xantia V6 and Leaf blog

Post by Mandrake »

RichardW wrote:
27 Oct 2021, 14:49
Terminology.... we're both talking about the same plastic trim at the base of the screen. Most people remove it, but Paul points out you can, if careful, remove the 3 bolts from under the wiper mech without having to remove it. Since it's bonded to the screen, it's [very] difficult to remove without breaking it or the screen. If yours is already in peril, then you might be left with a pile of pieces, but if you need to re-seal it anyway....
Let me get this straight - there are bolts (or are they nuts ?) in the wind screen wiper trough that have to be removed to free the dashboard, but the scuttle is glued down over this area ?

Who designed this monstrosity ???! :evil: #-o

How is the scuttle originally bonded to the glass ? Is it glued with a hard glue or is more like a silicon sealant ? Has anyone managed to get one off before without destroying it ?

Regarding the water leak, how does the glass bond to the car - is it bonded and sealed entirely on the underside of the glass and the scuttle trim is then just a finishing that doesn't form part of the seal or is it part of the seal ?

I'm trying to picture how water could be leaking in around the edge of the glass....

I'm assuming that new scuttle/trim is unobtanium ? :rofl2: