XSARA 1.6 VTR 2001: some odd unfixable problems

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Thomasraud
Posts: 3
Joined: 19 Feb 2020, 23:30

XSARA 1.6 VTR 2001: some odd unfixable problems

Unread post by Thomasraud »

Hello,
This is my first post (i did search and tested all what i found in this forum, i did get fix most of my problems long time ago - thank you guys!)
Sorry my terrible English skill.. its not my native language!

Because i dont have any electronic diagram, then i cant confirm anything is those have to be as i measured or not ( i used multimeter, changed parts etc... )

About car:
Citroen Xsara phase-II Coupe 1.6i 16V VTR 2001
Type: 08836CJ 01700432
VIN: VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]


Problem nr1: "Wiper waterspray motor cause horn fuse to blow" (i dont even remember what fuse is original, my last fuse was 30A - i think its wrong)
If im using horn it does not blow any fuse or does not activate any water movement to window (measured with multimeter, no short)
If im using waterspray, horn fuse get blown but waterspray is still working without any problem (measured with multimeter, no short)
I replaced fuse and measure short between horn and waterspray bump, no short. ( +short is activated when i pull waterspray, in second pull its normal, still it does not make horn noise, just blow fuse)
I replaced both, motor and Steering Column Switches, still fuse get blown. (Horn? Water bump? Some other component?)
My next step is to open up wiring harness and start looking somesort odd short, before i start open that... any sugestion? Maby wiring diagram?

Problem nr2: "Engine cooling fan does not run in First speed step, only 0 or FULL speed" (This is oldest problem and in summertime, its annoying if car started running hot)
Changed FAN
Changed Relays (all 3 in front passanger side near light)
Changed Fan Relay resistors (2 of them, front near fan frame)
but still no change, but data says it have 3 speed, 0, 1 and 2 - Also obd show 0 and 2, but does not activate 1 also via obd, it shows 1 is ON, but FAN does not move (car mechanic checked wires and he says they are ok)
If i cant find solution for that, its not killing me, its mostly annoying! #-o

Problem nr3: "Front lights does not have regulate"
Its very hard to describe - i made front light diagram :roll:
Image
I have GND, but i dont have activity in BLUE / Motor pin, it does not regulate front lights.. im out of ideas (PS! Lights are new [2 weeks old] also old lights didnt regulate, thats why i ordered new, i thought motor was broken and reflectors was anyway ruined(no rubber capsule behind lights).. thats one part of reason to buy new lights)

And now if you think its related with blown horn fuse, no checked that.. added new fuse, still nothing - but both problems started basicly @ same time im not 100% sure is that started exactly same time, but i noticed when horn did not work i havent able to regulate lights also... - i did passed Roadworthiness tests because i promised to fix that (also my lights was manualy turned down more than needed) :shock:

without wiring diagram its near impossible to find any fix.. I can stay buying new components, but that's not the solution!

If anyone have sugestion, guestions or wiring diagram to fix or try to fix those problems, then im very thankful. - Trust me, i dont want to open wiring harness without i realy have to!

User avatar
citroenguy
Posts: 46
Joined: 21 Sep 2017, 18:05
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Re: XSARA 1.6 VTR 2001: some odd unfixable problems

Unread post by citroenguy »

Since you have such a wide range of faults im thinking you may have a problem with the engine bay fusebox (BSM/PSF1).
All of these things seem to go via this fuse/relaybox according to wiring diagrams.
Here are some wiring diagrams, (though without your VIN i don't know if the cooling one is correct)
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tbjv7ygu8d22 ... 2BOua?dl=0

Thomasraud
Posts: 3
Joined: 19 Feb 2020, 23:30

Re: XSARA 1.6 VTR 2001: some odd unfixable problems

Unread post by Thomasraud »

Hello again!

Thank you citroenguy those wiring diagram helped me to sort out fuseboxes, wires and i made my own Fusebox disgram (because not a single fusebox diagram what i found was 1:1 with my car)
If anyone need it, then link is here (its not finished, but maby it help someone

Those days was long and frustraiting, i had to pull Fuse 1 by 1 to sort out what any fuse does or not. Check (startpoint till end point measure with multimeter) all those wires to confirm i have connections as far as i need and to sort out those damn fuses (it was bit annoy back in my day to measure fuses every time when some stuff doesnt work), now i have "some sort of" diagram =P~

Problem nr1: "Wiper waterspray motor cause horn fuse to blow" - is now fixed
Horn wire was shorted (guy who changed cluch did damaged some wires and fixed them with tape only and didnt tell me that) under engine fusebox to washer motor ground wire and throught that it got shorted! Thats why Horn worked and wiper worked fine separately, but when i pulled washer motor, then it made its magic!

Problem nr2: "Engine cooling fan does not run in First speed step, only 0 or FULL speed" - Is sorted out
This new fan what i ordered was single speed fan, atleast now i know all relays, fuses and wires are OK #-o :rofl2:

Problem nr3: "Front lights does not have regulate" Thats hard, maby i did ordered broken parts
I am that far, both (Original old and Ordered used parts) Front light leveling swiches seems to be broken somehow... or i broke them because of short?
I measured all connection from start to finish (from FLLS to Headlight) i have now all connections (as its have to be) [Maby BSI PFS1, Maby short in washer and ground fixed that?]! Lights still does not move
Spoiler: show
Image
I have all wire connection as you see in picture, but i dont have still "Ohms/change/voltage/data" on colored blue wire from 6600 to 2610, 2615.
EDIT:
corresponding to diagram
6600 pins:
2 + (battery positive)
3 - (battery negative)
1 U (variable voltage)


I opened one oldest 6600 - all components inside seems to be fine (at least measured resistors inside was fine.. those "metal spring loaded" connection had seemed to be bit "soft" and maby didnt make any connection, fixed that and anyway now i have Ohms outputs!
Steps
3 - 0,72 kohm
2,5 - 0,90 kohm
2 - 1,08 kohm
1,5 - 1,26 kohm
1 - 1,44 kohm
0,5 - 1,63 kohm
0 - 1,81 kohm

Lets hope i see voltage drop in 2610, 2615 pin 9

EDIT end---

I also opened BSI/PFS1
Spoiler: show
Image
Its bit in odd shape? :-D
Spoiler: show
Image
  • I resoldered all pins/connections/components what you see in picture
    Measured thatmuch as possible and i didnt find any "broken" parts...
So it was somesort waste of time... but now i have one more unit removed "sort of" from my "broken component" list! :rofl2:

And btw, what this relay in left upper corner does? I have all pins, but does not have relay in there! (seems like back in a day there was, but its removed) I did get access to www.alldata.com and did find out its somesort [air pump for EW7 engine] - is it right? why i have pins connected and wires goes to the main loom? (no i didnt measure where they go) its like finding needle in a haystack.. so.. Maby any info?
Spoiler: show
Image

Thomasraud
Posts: 3
Joined: 19 Feb 2020, 23:30

Re: XSARA 1.6 VTR 2001: some odd unfixable problems

Unread post by Thomasraud »

Hello again! (at a time when i planed to post, forum got some maintenance.. so it got postponed for several reason)

@ a time when i was making this "previously mentioned my own fusebox schematic" My car did throw up U1118 and showed up No communication ECU after that (ELM with GPS-GSM is connected 24/7 for Work related mileage, but also it record errors and troubles.. i have been running it for years) I didnt thought this U1118 can be Permanent error, because this car is so sensitive any voltage change, connect/disconnect and it show up some error codes (ex. flat battery) and those errors usually disappear by itself in random time (day til 5 later) or BSI reset, or i am able to delete then via OBD2, but OBD2 no ecu communication is still there... - I read forums all over and over and over, i did test all those "other fix solutions", but no luck.

- OBD2 Port Pinouts tests with obd2 tester showed all - OK, but still i made my measurements with tester...
pin 4&5 - Pin 16 have voltage 13V-ish (if car is not running ignition on 12.4V and if its running 13.5V)
Other pins have also connection voltages.. i dont see anything wrong with OBD2 port
- Bad BSI ground (removed all those 5 groundpoints (based on autodata info), cleaned (but they was fine), greased (with electronic lube) and tightened them back) / Also added 1 extra ground from Car body to Battery - terminal
AND nothing changed...
- Disconnected those ECU connectors, checked all pins.. no corrosion.. its possible some wire is broken.. This car have been some bad car repair places over a time.. so its possible option

My previous problem nr3 front light is still there, change was only that: i have now voltage (after that i found out it was badly fixed broken cable) in "Light motor data", it variable voltage, but light still does not regulate beam hights.. So that means 6600 operation do go throught BSI and end in front light, but something is missing.. Not old Original, new Original and also new Aftermarket Front lights does not regulate beam hight... what im missing there?

Now the other ODD (sometimes comes and goes) errors with this car
- Engine power loss (this is one of the oldest odd behavior, its mostly if car is running too long on low rpm and if you start move, its like there is no power atall and slowly it speed up until hit 2000+rpm and after that it run fine (too much petrol?))
- STOP light on dashboard (i saw this first time when coilpack died and car started run rough - at a time i got lots of missfire errors too, it got fixed with new coilpack, but now sometimes this STOP lights show up, no rough running, no stalling, no overheat.. nothing, car is running fine as it was running without that light, but this STOP light show up soooo rarely, so its basicly nothing, but worth mentioning!
- Immo light on Dashboard sometimes when i enter key and begin starting car, immo light show up with long beep noise, but car starting fine.. No longer as usual cranktime etc... Immo flashing 3-4 times and dissapear
- Central lock sometimes does not respond for locking or unlocking car (like keyfob battery is empty or buttons damaged, but i changed battery and problem remains, then i assumed those rubberpads are old, ordered new (cost 50€ for damn keyfob) and problem is still same) randomly its not working as it should and mostly its working fine...
- More petrol usage (also sometimes i smell odor of not burned petrol) I know there is many different reasons for that; 5W30 replaced with 5W40, replaced exhaust pipe, replaced oxygen sensors and so one... all those changes are made over a time of possessions...

Over a time while this car is my possession, i fixed and replaced many parts, ofc i want my car be fixed and not dangerous on road, but sometimes i feel.. its not worth it anymore..

Anyway, as mentioned my last problems are mostly still there, previously mentioned BSI is dead problem started to shine up more and more...
BSI related questions:
If im changing BSI, do i still need Lexia to reprogram it or i dont have to program BSI? Or what i have to do? Just take old out and new in and start car?
Is there any different what BSI im install?

This is my BSI:
REF VALEO: 73003412
REF DAV: A 11928
REF SYLEA: 13491300
REF PSA: 9643493380
01/010/A

BSI_N7 boite D4 n
HARD: PR2D
SOFT: V3.51

I found on internet some different VALEO REF numbered BSI...
Picture:

All of this REF data is maching, all connector maching, but REF VALEO does not mach, i dont want to buy another part what does not have any use of my car and end-up in garage corner for collecting dust.. i have plenty of those parts allready...

Am i OK to buy one of these BSI and install it? or my car have some other problem what is not related with BSI? I know, i still hope BSI is fine untill i hear its dead atleast 3-4 people who know what they talk about
This project car is start turning to money pit..