407 2.0 16v hdi non start

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mudneckblues
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407 2.0 16v hdi non start

Post by mudneckblues » 20 Jan 2020, 14:15

wont start sometimes. will run on either sometimes but then dies. wont start from bump start. motor spins at decent speed when cranking. glow plug code comes up. I installed new fuel filter to no avail. Have not tried leak check at injectors, have not done anything with fuel sensor. Vin is VF3**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]

mudneckblues
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Re: 407 2.0 16v hdi non start

Post by mudneckblues » 23 Jan 2020, 15:09

tested my glow plugs disconnected the connector on top right of motor that has the tag reading slami/angers dw10bted4 9657375680 199620. ohmed out each of the pins to ground and found that three of the plugs were open circuit. on the lead to relay circuit i used a test lamp and each of the legs lit this up when ignition applied. Now wondering on techniques to remove the glow plug tips if they break off. what would happen if the motor was cranked with the rest of the plug removed would this be dangerous? ngk video suggests applying oil and running vehicle for a week but this wouldn't stop the tip breaking off? any ideas? thanks in advance.

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Re: 407 2.0 16v hdi non start

Post by ekjdm14 » 23 Jan 2020, 19:10

Ouch, replacing GP's isn't fun & despite trying some techniques to remove a broken tip from our 1.4HDi a year or so back, I found that the only sensible option in that case was to remove the head & drill it out from the underside. I tried running the engine with the rest of the plug removed (with a good sized bundle of rag optimistically placed to catch the tip if it flew out!) sadly to no avail.

Not sure if I just had a really nasty one, but definitely any form of preventing the tip breaking in the first place has to be a better way. I believe there's some special "snake oil" type spray that's supposed to creep in and dissolve any deposits holding it in place, maybe worth a try.

To be fair though, I very much doubt this is the cause of the non-start. Direct injection diesels are generally much easier to start cold, and the glow plugs are more an emission control thing than a starting aid. With our 1.4HDi, we only realised there was an issue when the final GP failed causing limp-home mode and "Antipollution Fault" on the MFD. It still started and ran just fine apart from that, and when the tip broke off I wished I'd just bolted one new plug to the outside of the engine and used that to trick the ECU into thinking things were fine!

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Re: 407 2.0 16v hdi non start

Post by Peter.N. » 25 Jan 2020, 11:32

I would concur, glow plugs not normally needed unless you live in Siberia. Sounds more like air in the fuel line. Don't know if yours has an in-tank pump, if so that could be the problem, if not it will probably have a squeezy hand primer, if the latter try pumping that until it goes firm and see if it starts.

Failing all that fit a length of clear plastic pipe in the fuel line between the filter and pump and look for air bubbles.

Peter

mudneckblues
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Re: 407 2.0 16v hdi non start

Post by mudneckblues » 25 Jan 2020, 14:56

Thanks for that. I was wondering if the fuel system automatically gets shot of air when running. I read in the Haynes manual that you have to connect a Peugeot hose no 444t line between fuel filter outlet and fuel return pipe and force fuel through for 1 minute with hand pump to remove any hidden air.
Last edited by mudneckblues on 26 Jan 2020, 14:03, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 407 2.0 16v hdi non start

Post by mudneckblues » 25 Jan 2020, 15:06

main thing though about the glow plugs is that when i come to sell i wouldn't want anybody else to have to deal with the head ache to replace them. obviously the one who sold this to me didn't know or care that it would make my head hurt dealing with the break down issue esp/brake switch issue ect. as well as bought it with worn out ball/swivel joint. its been a riot ha!

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Re: 407 2.0 16v hdi non start

Post by Peter.N. » 25 Jan 2020, 16:09

The fuel system is self bleeding to a degree but it depends how much air is getting in. Could be a blocked fuel filter in the tank, this causes the HP pump to suck harder and will cause much more air to leak in than normally would. I think the first port of call would be the in tank pump - if it has one.

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Re: 407 2.0 16v hdi non start

Post by mudneckblues » 26 Jan 2020, 13:59

Haynes says there is a fuel lift pump in the sender unit in the tank. so most likely a filter there too. Ill rinse that out or better yet new screen.

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Re: 407 2.0 16v hdi non start

Post by GiveMeABreak » 26 Jan 2020, 16:18

There is no pump in the tank - only the gauge / sender unit on your 407 with this engine.

As for the Haynes manual - that's wrong again on this occasion. There is no requirement to connect any tool if you are replacing the fuel filter. The bleeding is done using both the priming bulb and the 'breather'. Later models with the later DW10BTED4 modified engine have a different requirement.

If you want the correct procedure for replacing the fuel filter, just shout.

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Re: 407 2.0 16v hdi non start

Post by mudneckblues » 30 Jan 2020, 14:47

Yes please Marc! I think my motor is the ted4 as the wire to the glow plugs says dw10bted4 eobd. Driving me bonkers, had to charge battery 4 or five times yesterday to go out and then missus has to stay in cause we are scared to turn it off.

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Re: 407 2.0 16v hdi non start

Post by GiveMeABreak » 30 Jan 2020, 16:44

Ok, here you are:

Peugeot (407 - Specific DW10BTED4) Fuel Filter Replacement Proedure

Note: This is for the specific model above - later DW10BTED4 engines have a different procedure

Removing

Note: After the ignition has been switched off, wait 15 minutes before disconnecting the battery (To ensure that the learning patterns of the various ECUs are stored in memory) .

Disconnect the battery following the (BSI Reset / Battery Disconnect / Reconnect Procedure)
  • Remove the engine style cover.
  • Remove the shield under the engine.
  • Place a draining tray under the engine.
  • Drain the filter.
407 Fuel A.PNG
407 Fuel B.PNG
Open:
  • The breather bolt (1)
  • The drain screw (2)
Disconnect:
  • The fuel connectors (3 - 4)
  • The connector for the heating element (5)
Pour the degreasing agent into a container (According to equipment)

ESSENTIAL: Cover the fuel connectors with covers supplied in the filter kit .
Unscrew:
  • The cover (6)
  • The (7) bolt
Remove the screws (8).
Slacken the bolt (9).

Remove:
  • The fuel filter (10) protector
    The filter bowl
Drain the remaining fuel contained in the bowl into the draining tray .
Clean the fuel filter bowl using a brush and degreasing agent SODIMAC 35.
Before refitting, allow the fuel filter bowl to drip.

CAUTION: Do not use compressed air.

Tighten the drain screw of the float chamber.

CAUTION: Mounting of the diesel filter assembly on a vice is strictly prohibited.

Refitting

ESSENTIAL: Open the sachet containing the new filter element just before refitting.

Refit:
  • The fuel filter bowl on its support (Tighten the bolts (8 - 9) to 1.0 m.daN )
  • The new filter element
  • A new seal
  • The cover
Reconnect:
  • The fuel pipes (3)
  • The connector for the heating element (5)
Pour the degreasing agent into a container (According to equipment)

407 Fuel C.PNG
  • Tighten the cover until it is in contact with the bowl (11).
  • Bleed the bowl with the breather (1) and the bulb (12).
  • Operate the bulb to rinse the reservoir.
  • Reconnect the battery, follow the reconnection part of the
    (BSI Reset / Battery Disconnect / Reconnect Procedure)
  • Start the engine.
  • Check that there are no fuel leaks.
  • Fit the engine shield.
  • Replace the style cover.

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Re: 407 2.0 16v hdi non start

Post by mudneckblues » 31 Jan 2020, 14:50

thanks

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Re: 407 2.0 16v hdi non start

Post by EDC5 » 31 Jan 2020, 17:00

If the engine won't start despite a decent cranking speed, I would be suspecting the crank position sensor or cam position sensor. The engine requires signals from both to fire. Fortunately, both are very easy to replace.
I don’t think glow plugs are that important on this engine.