Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

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danlat1415
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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by danlat1415 »

Thanks
VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by danlat1415 »

There are no warnings on my dashboard screen, so I only know about it because of the ODB2 diagnostic (ELM327).
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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Just as an aside...

I was looking up your vehicle with on Citroen's official database and there is an outstanding recall / After Sales campaign notification against your Picasso. I suggest you contact the dealer and advise then that you have been made aware of some work that needs doing. They'll ask for your Reg / VIN and will advise. The work will be free of charge whatever it is, but I would get it done if I were you. There are no details as to what it is though.
An after-sales campaign must be carried out on this vehicle. Advise your client to make an appointment with their authorised dealer as soon as possible
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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by danlat1415 »

It's booked it at Citroen on Friday, so I'll mention it then. Thanks
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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

As to the issue: You have the CONTINENTAL SID 807 Engine ECU.

Suspect is injector number 4 - but if you have access to some live data you may be able to see what's happening - but I would start by treating the diesel with some fuel treatment / injector cleaner for diesels next time you fill up and use some premium diesel for the next few tankfuls.
Fault codeP0272
After sales description of the fault codeNo. 4 cylinder: Injector resetting outside tolerance
Description of the diagnosticsDifference of more than 0,8 mg/stroke between the pilot injection and the flow reference value
Conditions of activation of the diagnosticsengine running
Conditions of disappearance of the faultThe following conditions have to be met;
- Engine hot (Coolant temperature above 70°C)
- External air temperature greater than 0°C
- Gear higher than 3rd
- Vehicle speed higher than 40 km/h
- Perform long decelerations without braking (Between 2500 and 1500 rpm)
Down-grade modes if fault present-
Switching on of the warning lamp and/or warning message-
Main customer complaints likelyJerking/stalling
Engine acceleration at wrong time
Noise
Slightly higher fuel consumption
Starting problem
Smoke from the exhaust
Lack of power
Suspect areasFuel injector 4
Injector classification
Poor quality of the fuel or type of fuel
Fuel return
Inlet valve - Exhaust valve - Spring – Seal
Piston - Piston rings - Shaft - Cooling system
Connecting rod
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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

danlat1415 wrote: 13 Jul 2019, 18:10 It's booked it at Citroen on Friday, so I'll mention it then. Thanks
They should know about it - but don't count on it - I would give them a call and tell them you are aware of a recall notice / after sales campaign and ensure they do this at the same time - but tell them in case they need to get a specific part in - don't rely on them having parts in - as they usually get them in on a per job basis (just in time supply).
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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by danlat1415 »

Thanks for your help.
This is the best technical support forum I've known for cars.

I'll call the garage on Monday (service is closed Sundays) and ask to add the extra repair, whatever it is.

That seems to be nothing too concerning about the fuel injector.
I actually ran the test on a cold start so the engine hadn't warmed up and I've only done a quick trip in it today.

I'll get some fuel treatment for deisels. Can you recommend any, or are they all pretty much the same?
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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

No problem.

Something like STP Compete Fuel System Cleaner - Diesel (cleans the fuel system) and has good reviews.
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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by danlat1415 »

Here is an update on my issue;

Car has been to Citroen today to have the alternator belt and 2 tensioners replaced....

I turned up to collect the car to be told that the belt was fine and didn't need replacing and that the tensioner was covered under a safety recall - so it was free.

That's good, but annoyingly they did NOT replace the lower tensioner.
(I put red marker pen on the 2 tensioners so I could be sure they didn't try and con me).


The belt and tensioners aren't bouncing as bad as they were, but they were still bouncing. It seems to be a constant rhythm which suggests the lower tension spring has gone).

It is definitely the tensioners that are causing my stop start stalling issues.
I've been for a drive since they replaced 1 tensioner the situation has improved and it's working 50% of the time now instead of stalling everything.
So the new tensioner is putting more pressure of the belt for the alternator to get a good grip.

The bad news is I'm going to have to take it back for them to replace the lower tensioner.


On one hand I'm grateful they thought they were doing me a favour by not replacing the belt and replacing one tensioner free of charge, but on the other hand I'm annoyed they didn't replace what I had specifically asked or call me to discuss when they decided to change the order.




To be honest, I think they just rushed the job with it being a Friday afternoon, and the top tensioner is the easiest to access and replace and can be done in 15 minutes, whereas the lower one is hard to get to because its partially behind a cover.
Last edited by danlat1415 on 19 Jul 2019, 21:46, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

That’s not really good enough. If you are sure you asked for the top and bottom tensioners (regardless of the recall) they should of done it and only charged you partially for the lower one if the top one happened to be free of charge.

The labour is the killer on these jobs, so I would talk to the service manager and say that they have not done what you requested. I would advise him if the tension issue and that this is likely to put more strain on the top one!
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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by danlat1415 »

Sorry for the late update.

I ended up taking my car to an independent garage because I don't trust Citroen unless there is something I specifically need.
Even with the service recalls they did for me they did poorly.


Well, my local garage replaced both tensioners (even though Citroen replaced the top tensioner) and the alternator belt for me and it's completely sorted the issue.

My car now stops and starts perfectly.

The issue turned out to be the lower tensioner - just as the Original Poster found with his vehicle.
The spring in my lower tensioner had broken.
It wasn't visible on the outside like the original poster's photo, but when you shake mine you can hear the broken spring rattle around inside like a coin box.


I'm so glad I managed to find this post, because I never would have realised that the alternator tensioners would affect the stop start system in the way it does, or that our vehicles have 2 tensioners instead of the normal 1.

This has saved a lot of diagnostics and wasted costs.

Thank you to all who helped.
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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Glad it's sorted and thanks for coming back to update the post - really essential for others to know the outcome. :)
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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by bonovski »

Hi, guys.
I’m having similar problems with my alternator belt/tensioners.
Did anyone do it themselves?

Is it difficult to remove the second tensioner?
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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by Dkw99 »

Sounds like I am having the exact same problem. I have a citroen DS3 eHDI 2012 that I have recently purchased. I noticed that when the engine cuts out at traffic stops/ red lights etc there isn’t a problem and it does this perfectly, however, when pressing the clutch down again, the engine makes a squeaking noise and the car stalls.

Looking under the engine the top tensioner does seem to move quite a bit when idling and I suspect this shouldn’t happen otherwise the belt would have enough tension.

My problem is that looking at the drive belt diagram provided by another user, mine seems to be different as I can only see the top tensioner. Is there a way to see a personalised drive belt diagram specific to my vehicle? And does anyone have knowledge about replacing the belt, as it seems there is a housing unit for the crank shaft and I’m not too sure how to go about slipping the belt away from this.

Thankyou :)
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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by WayneL »

Dear All,
I have a Citroen C4 Grand Piccaso
Model : C4 Gr Picasso Vtr+ AirEhdi Sa
Engine : 1.6 E-Hdi 90 Etg6 Auto
Gearbox: 6-speed Semi Automatic
Year : 2014 (2013 Reg)

This problem still stick around. after reading the posts in the French Car Forum, however the situation for my car is not exactly the same.
I have problem in these situations:
Situation 1:
In uphill road, when I press on brake till the car stop, the ECO mode kicks in and the engine is off at that moment. When I release the brake and press on accelerator when I need to go, the car stall! and all lights on the dashboard lights up and a warning "bi~~" sound can be heard.
Then I have to swear my car to N mode and press the brake and start button to restart the car again.
This situation happens occasionally, maybe 1 out of 10. To my observation, seems it related to the slope of the uphill, the larger it is , the more chance the car will stall.

Situation 2
In flat road, when I press on brake till the car stop, the ECO mode kicks in and the engine is off at that moment. When I release the brake and press on accelerator when I need to go, the car does NOT accelerate, the engine still off, the car seems put itself to a 'N' gear! The dashboard doesn't show any signal or warning at all! Then I have to swear my car to N mode and press the brake and start button to restart the car again.
This situation happens recently still occasionally, maybe 1 out of 10. This is even bad, as it does not show any warning or signal at all.

Situation 3. I tried to switch off the ECO mode when driving. However, every time when I stop the car in traffic, and release the brake, the car will jerk for one time. It feels like the gearbox cannot get in right at the first attempt. I worry if the clutch inside gearbox will be damage soon.
This situation happens everytime! when the ECO mode is off.

I really in a dilemma to go with the ECO mode or not with it.
does anyone have similar problem with the B78?
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