Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

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danlat1415
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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by danlat1415 » 13 Jul 2019, 16:44

Thanks
VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]

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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by danlat1415 » 13 Jul 2019, 17:44

There are no warnings on my dashboard screen, so I only know about it because of the ODB2 diagnostic (ELM327).

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by GiveMeABreak » 13 Jul 2019, 18:01

Just as an aside...

I was looking up your vehicle with on Citroen's official database and there is an outstanding recall / After Sales campaign notification against your Picasso. I suggest you contact the dealer and advise then that you have been made aware of some work that needs doing. They'll ask for your Reg / VIN and will advise. The work will be free of charge whatever it is, but I would get it done if I were you. There are no details as to what it is though.
An after-sales campaign must be carried out on this vehicle. Advise your client to make an appointment with their authorised dealer as soon as possible

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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by danlat1415 » 13 Jul 2019, 18:10

It's booked it at Citroen on Friday, so I'll mention it then. Thanks

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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by GiveMeABreak » 13 Jul 2019, 18:14

As to the issue: You have the CONTINENTAL SID 807 Engine ECU.

Suspect is injector number 4 - but if you have access to some live data you may be able to see what's happening - but I would start by treating the diesel with some fuel treatment / injector cleaner for diesels next time you fill up and use some premium diesel for the next few tankfuls.
Fault codeP0272
After sales description of the fault codeNo. 4 cylinder: Injector resetting outside tolerance
Description of the diagnosticsDifference of more than 0,8 mg/stroke between the pilot injection and the flow reference value
Conditions of activation of the diagnosticsengine running
Conditions of disappearance of the faultThe following conditions have to be met;
- Engine hot (Coolant temperature above 70°C)
- External air temperature greater than 0°C
- Gear higher than 3rd
- Vehicle speed higher than 40 km/h
- Perform long decelerations without braking (Between 2500 and 1500 rpm)
Down-grade modes if fault present-
Switching on of the warning lamp and/or warning message-
Main customer complaints likelyJerking/stalling
Engine acceleration at wrong time
Noise
Slightly higher fuel consumption
Starting problem
Smoke from the exhaust
Lack of power
Suspect areasFuel injector 4
Injector classification
Poor quality of the fuel or type of fuel
Fuel return
Inlet valve - Exhaust valve - Spring – Seal
Piston - Piston rings - Shaft - Cooling system
Connecting rod

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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by GiveMeABreak » 13 Jul 2019, 18:16

danlat1415 wrote:
13 Jul 2019, 18:10
It's booked it at Citroen on Friday, so I'll mention it then. Thanks
They should know about it - but don't count on it - I would give them a call and tell them you are aware of a recall notice / after sales campaign and ensure they do this at the same time - but tell them in case they need to get a specific part in - don't rely on them having parts in - as they usually get them in on a per job basis (just in time supply).

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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by danlat1415 » 13 Jul 2019, 18:49

Thanks for your help.
This is the best technical support forum I've known for cars.

I'll call the garage on Monday (service is closed Sundays) and ask to add the extra repair, whatever it is.

That seems to be nothing too concerning about the fuel injector.
I actually ran the test on a cold start so the engine hadn't warmed up and I've only done a quick trip in it today.

I'll get some fuel treatment for deisels. Can you recommend any, or are they all pretty much the same?

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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by GiveMeABreak » 13 Jul 2019, 19:43

No problem.

Something like STP Compete Fuel System Cleaner - Diesel (cleans the fuel system) and has good reviews.

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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by danlat1415 » 19 Jul 2019, 18:47

Here is an update on my issue;

Car has been to Citroen today to have the alternator belt and 2 tensioners replaced....

I turned up to collect the car to be told that the belt was fine and didn't need replacing and that the tensioner was covered under a safety recall - so it was free.

That's good, but annoyingly they did NOT replace the lower tensioner.
(I put red marker pen on the 2 tensioners so I could be sure they didn't try and con me).


The belt and tensioners aren't bouncing as bad as they were, but they were still bouncing. It seems to be a constant rhythm which suggests the lower tension spring has gone).

It is definitely the tensioners that are causing my stop start stalling issues.
I've been for a drive since they replaced 1 tensioner the situation has improved and it's working 50% of the time now instead of stalling everything.
So the new tensioner is putting more pressure of the belt for the alternator to get a good grip.

The bad news is I'm going to have to take it back for them to replace the lower tensioner.


On one hand I'm grateful they thought they were doing me a favour by not replacing the belt and replacing one tensioner free of charge, but on the other hand I'm annoyed they didn't replace what I had specifically asked or call me to discuss when they decided to change the order.




To be honest, I think they just rushed the job with it being a Friday afternoon, and the top tensioner is the easiest to access and replace and can be done in 15 minutes, whereas the lower one is hard to get to because its partially behind a cover.
Last edited by danlat1415 on 19 Jul 2019, 21:46, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by GiveMeABreak » 19 Jul 2019, 19:38

That’s not really good enough. If you are sure you asked for the top and bottom tensioners (regardless of the recall) they should of done it and only charged you partially for the lower one if the top one happened to be free of charge.

The labour is the killer on these jobs, so I would talk to the service manager and say that they have not done what you requested. I would advise him if the tension issue and that this is likely to put more strain on the top one!

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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by danlat1415 » 21 Aug 2019, 17:37

Sorry for the late update.

I ended up taking my car to an independent garage because I don't trust Citroen unless there is something I specifically need.
Even with the service recalls they did for me they did poorly.


Well, my local garage replaced both tensioners (even though Citroen replaced the top tensioner) and the alternator belt for me and it's completely sorted the issue.

My car now stops and starts perfectly.

The issue turned out to be the lower tensioner - just as the Original Poster found with his vehicle.
The spring in my lower tensioner had broken.
It wasn't visible on the outside like the original poster's photo, but when you shake mine you can hear the broken spring rattle around inside like a coin box.


I'm so glad I managed to find this post, because I never would have realised that the alternator tensioners would affect the stop start system in the way it does, or that our vehicles have 2 tensioners instead of the normal 1.

This has saved a lot of diagnostics and wasted costs.

Thank you to all who helped.

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Re: Start/Stop Issue Advise needed, Belt Tension?

Post by GiveMeABreak » 21 Aug 2019, 19:43

Glad it's sorted and thanks for coming back to update the post - really essential for others to know the outcome. :)