Sump Plug
Moderator: RichardW
- jimmymarsbar
- (Donor 2016)
- Posts: 139
- Joined: 04 Apr 2016, 11:45
- Location: Thackley, West Yorks
- My Cars: 307 2.0 hdi 110
Megane Estate 1.5dCi - x 13
- Contact:
Sump Plug
My Megane 1.5 dci is due it's oil change soon, so I thought I'd do it myself, the weather was nice, SWMBO was doing my head in, no better time to do it than this weekend.
I got out my 8mm sump plug key/socket, and the bloody thing just cams out.
Having a closer look, the plug was rounded out to the point where nothing works to get the plug out.
I reckon the plug has been over tightened in the past, and the last guy/garage neanderthal working on the oil change has somehow destroyed the plug. It's not going anywhere.
I attempted a T55 torx socket driven into into the plug, but the plug just gets more chewed up.
Next thought was to chisel a notch in the plug and use a drift to work it round. But owing to the limited clearance under the car, this wasn't an option.
Yesterday, I rummaged through the gash box at work, found a 13mm bolt, stud sat in the hole, head sat against the plug. Welded onto the plug, the weld failed and the head just sheered straight off. Too much torque for 13mm.
Ground the bolt head back down to the plug, had a 19mm bolt and nut, span the nut down to the bolt head, there was just enough metal on the plug showing to get a weld on, 1 turn of my 3/8" ratchet and it came off nice and easy.
Either the garage gorilla over-torqued the plug, or the plug was made of cheese.
I got out my 8mm sump plug key/socket, and the bloody thing just cams out.
Having a closer look, the plug was rounded out to the point where nothing works to get the plug out.
I reckon the plug has been over tightened in the past, and the last guy/garage neanderthal working on the oil change has somehow destroyed the plug. It's not going anywhere.
I attempted a T55 torx socket driven into into the plug, but the plug just gets more chewed up.
Next thought was to chisel a notch in the plug and use a drift to work it round. But owing to the limited clearance under the car, this wasn't an option.
Yesterday, I rummaged through the gash box at work, found a 13mm bolt, stud sat in the hole, head sat against the plug. Welded onto the plug, the weld failed and the head just sheered straight off. Too much torque for 13mm.
Ground the bolt head back down to the plug, had a 19mm bolt and nut, span the nut down to the bolt head, there was just enough metal on the plug showing to get a weld on, 1 turn of my 3/8" ratchet and it came off nice and easy.
Either the garage gorilla over-torqued the plug, or the plug was made of cheese.
- CitroJim
- A very naughty boy
- Posts: 49518
- Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
- Location: Paggers
- My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
- x 6156
- Contact:
Re: Sump Plug
Gosh That must have been tight!
You were lucky the sump itself was not damaged!
You were lucky the sump itself was not damaged!
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
- jimmymarsbar
- (Donor 2016)
- Posts: 139
- Joined: 04 Apr 2016, 11:45
- Location: Thackley, West Yorks
- My Cars: 307 2.0 hdi 110
Megane Estate 1.5dCi - x 13
- Contact:
Re: Sump Plug
The old plug had clearly been overtightened, the thread at the top end (ie. the head) of the plug had flattened, and the thread in the sump had cross-threaded slightly on the first thread. But, nothing that couldn't be sorted.
The filter was just as tight.....
The filter was just as tight.....
- CitroJim
- A very naughty boy
- Posts: 49518
- Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
- Location: Paggers
- My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
- x 6156
- Contact:
Re: Sump Plug
people who do that to cars should not be allowed near them...
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
-
- (Donor 2020)
- Posts: 1810
- Joined: 19 Jan 2015, 17:42
- Location: Congleton
- Lexia Available: Yes
- My Cars: '95 Xantia 1.9D automatic - 109k one of two remaining
'03 206 GTi180 - 97k in pieces being brought back up to snuff
'03 206 1.9TD - home-built veg-fuelled B-road bruiser
'99 306 SE 2.0i cabriolet - 92k awaiting service work ready for next summer
'97 306 XS 1.6i 3 door, Bianca White, from dead 12 years & seized solid to road legal in 7 days - x 212
Re: Sump Plug
CitroJim wrote:people who do that to cars should not be allowed near them...
Sounds like it went to the exact opposite "specialist" that our Xant' was with, I have to say I much prefer to find drain plugs loose like on that than overtorqued to the point of destruction... At least you won't have to worry if the spheres will come undone on that Megane
'95 Xantia LX 1.9D-auto, Black, 109k
'03 206 GTi180 94k in surgery
'03 206 1.1S XUD9TE/veg project
'99 306 2.0SE cabriolet 95k summer toy
'97 306 XS 1.6i 99k sat 12 years, fixed in 7 days, 150mile maiden voyage
'03 206 GTi180 94k in surgery
'03 206 1.1S XUD9TE/veg project
'99 306 2.0SE cabriolet 95k summer toy
'97 306 XS 1.6i 99k sat 12 years, fixed in 7 days, 150mile maiden voyage
-
- Moderating Team
- Posts: 11563
- Joined: 02 Apr 2005, 16:11
- Location: Charmouth,Dorset
- My Cars: Currently:
C5 X7 VTR + Satnav Hdi estate Silver
C5 X7 VTR + Hdi Estate 2008 Red
In the past: 3, CX td Safaris and about 7, XM td estates. Lovely cars. - x 1199
Re: Sump Plug
Common problem I have had it on several cars, I keep a stock of copper washers so I don't have to do it up very tight.
The worse job was on one of my recently acquired 406s, I say recently although I have had it for over a year but this is the first oil change I have done as it had just been serviced when I bought it (so I know who to blame). The sump plug came undone OK but I couldn't get the filter off, I only ever tighten them hand tight and you usually unscrew the by hand but this one wouldn't move.
I used a chain strap wrench on it but it was slowly destroying the filter, I spent an hour or so trying to move it and eventually resorted to my home made sphere removal tool which uses double motorbike chain, eventually with a 3' breaker bar I got it to shift. However they had got it that tight I am at a loss to know.
Incidentally, the sump plug on my first 406 had the thread stripped in the sump, I successfully ran the car for 5 years and over 60k miles by winding about 10 turns of PTFE tape round the plug every time I changed the oil.
Peter
The worse job was on one of my recently acquired 406s, I say recently although I have had it for over a year but this is the first oil change I have done as it had just been serviced when I bought it (so I know who to blame). The sump plug came undone OK but I couldn't get the filter off, I only ever tighten them hand tight and you usually unscrew the by hand but this one wouldn't move.
I used a chain strap wrench on it but it was slowly destroying the filter, I spent an hour or so trying to move it and eventually resorted to my home made sphere removal tool which uses double motorbike chain, eventually with a 3' breaker bar I got it to shift. However they had got it that tight I am at a loss to know.
Incidentally, the sump plug on my first 406 had the thread stripped in the sump, I successfully ran the car for 5 years and over 60k miles by winding about 10 turns of PTFE tape round the plug every time I changed the oil.
Peter
- white exec
- Moderating Team
- Posts: 7445
- Joined: 21 Dec 2015, 12:46
- Location: Sayalonga, Malaga, Spain
- My Cars: 1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive hatch RHD
1992 BX19D Millesime hatch LHD
previously 1989 BX19RD, 1998 ZX 1.9D auto, 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto
and lots of Rovers before that: 1935 Ten, 1947 Sixteen, 1960 P5 3-litre, 1966 P6 2000, 1972 P6 2000TC, and 1975 P6B 3500S - x 1752
Re: Sump Plug
I think that oil filters not budging are often down to a failure to coat the rubber sealing washer with oil. Many of these sealing rings are now glued to the filter groove, and if a dry ring is screwed down onto a dry engine flange, then it can "bake" into position. I've started using a smear of silicone grease on the rings now.
Do remember what Peter once described, years ago, when almost everything failed to unscrew a filter - strap and chain wrenches, even a cold chisel through it - all that happened was that the 'can' messily collapsed. In the end, resorted to a small chisel dug into the filter's base and a good bit of hammering.
For our Toyota, I bought an inexpensive filter socket, which makes gentle tightening and undoing really easy.
Do remember what Peter once described, years ago, when almost everything failed to unscrew a filter - strap and chain wrenches, even a cold chisel through it - all that happened was that the 'can' messily collapsed. In the end, resorted to a small chisel dug into the filter's base and a good bit of hammering.
For our Toyota, I bought an inexpensive filter socket, which makes gentle tightening and undoing really easy.
Chris
- CitroJim
- A very naughty boy
- Posts: 49518
- Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
- Location: Paggers
- My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
- x 6156
- Contact:
Re: Sump Plug
Chris, a very good tip but ordinary engine oil is fine too.
I've always oiled the filter sealing ring before fitting and never, ever had a problem removing an oil filter subsequently - often being able to do it by hand without tools...
I've got what looks like a pair of forceps (but designed for the job) for removing stubborn filters... Works a treat, even where a socket like yours won't fit - such as in an Activa...
I've always oiled the filter sealing ring before fitting and never, ever had a problem removing an oil filter subsequently - often being able to do it by hand without tools...
I've got what looks like a pair of forceps (but designed for the job) for removing stubborn filters... Works a treat, even where a socket like yours won't fit - such as in an Activa...
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
-
- Moderating Team
- Posts: 11563
- Joined: 02 Apr 2005, 16:11
- Location: Charmouth,Dorset
- My Cars: Currently:
C5 X7 VTR + Satnav Hdi estate Silver
C5 X7 VTR + Hdi Estate 2008 Red
In the past: 3, CX td Safaris and about 7, XM td estates. Lovely cars. - x 1199
Re: Sump Plug
Chris - I tried the hammer and chisel approach this time to no avail, it was just destroying the filter and I had nasty black oil dripping all over me, you have to be careful not to damage the mating surface on the block too.
Jim - As long as the block is clean I leave the existing oil on the surface and just screw it on, I never normally have trouble unscrewing them by hand when I have fitted them.
Peter
Jim - As long as the block is clean I leave the existing oil on the surface and just screw it on, I never normally have trouble unscrewing them by hand when I have fitted them.
Peter
- white exec
- Moderating Team
- Posts: 7445
- Joined: 21 Dec 2015, 12:46
- Location: Sayalonga, Malaga, Spain
- My Cars: 1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive hatch RHD
1992 BX19D Millesime hatch LHD
previously 1989 BX19RD, 1998 ZX 1.9D auto, 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto
and lots of Rovers before that: 1935 Ten, 1947 Sixteen, 1960 P5 3-litre, 1966 P6 2000, 1972 P6 2000TC, and 1975 P6B 3500S - x 1752
Re: Sump Plug
I was lucky with the one I had to "notch hammer" to undo: the rim of the filter (into which I dug the cold chisel) overhung the alu engine flange, so less chance of accidental damage.
Jim - agreed, a bit of oil is everything you need. I just had the silicone grease handy, so it got used.
Luxury-of-luxuries, the genuine Toyota (Denso) filters come with a pull-away film protector across the base, with the rubber seal pre-greased. Can't have those Toyota 'technicians' getting greasy!
Jim - agreed, a bit of oil is everything you need. I just had the silicone grease handy, so it got used.
Luxury-of-luxuries, the genuine Toyota (Denso) filters come with a pull-away film protector across the base, with the rubber seal pre-greased. Can't have those Toyota 'technicians' getting greasy!
Chris
- CitroJim
- A very naughty boy
- Posts: 49518
- Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
- Location: Paggers
- My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
- x 6156
- Contact:
Re: Sump Plug
white exec wrote:Can't have those Toyota 'technicians' getting greasy!
Absolutely not! Heaven forbid
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Re: Sump Plug
Toyota are full of great ideas, their factory is sci fi compared to everyone else's. I wish they would make a car I like because I love the way they make them, just not what they actually make.
Re: RE: Re: Sump Plug
Yes. Exactly the issue I have with Toyotas! Wonderfully made vehicles, just so tedious. I have a liking for the MR2 Roadster and the later RAV4 but other than that....elma wrote:Toyota are full of great ideas, their factory is sci fi compared to everyone else's. I wish they would make a car I like because I love the way they make them, just not what they actually make.
Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
- white exec
- Moderating Team
- Posts: 7445
- Joined: 21 Dec 2015, 12:46
- Location: Sayalonga, Malaga, Spain
- My Cars: 1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive hatch RHD
1992 BX19D Millesime hatch LHD
previously 1989 BX19RD, 1998 ZX 1.9D auto, 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto
and lots of Rovers before that: 1935 Ten, 1947 Sixteen, 1960 P5 3-litre, 1966 P6 2000, 1972 P6 2000TC, and 1975 P6B 3500S - x 1752
Re: Sump Plug
Absolutely. Just think what thy could have achieved with a decent styling department!
The saloon cars are particularly sad-looking.
Despite that, they have sold one or two (just look at the recall numbers!). But so have Beko, LG and Indesit
The saloon cars are particularly sad-looking.
Despite that, they have sold one or two (just look at the recall numbers!). But so have Beko, LG and Indesit
Chris
- CitroJim
- A very naughty boy
- Posts: 49518
- Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
- Location: Paggers
- My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
- x 6156
- Contact:
Re: Sump Plug
white exec wrote: The saloon cars are particularly sad-looking.
yes, but not half as sad as the Fraud Fiesta of the late 90s/early 2000s ... That one looked positively inconsolable due to the front-end styling
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...