Clio - it's raining in!

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Mick F
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Clio - it's raining in!

Post by Mick F »

Hi guys, newbie here, and I hope you can help me.

We have a 2001 Clio Initiale owned since brand new - done 84,000miles - and since early December last year, it's been raining in and soaking the front carpets.

By parking facing downhill, we can keep the wetness at the front, but parking the other way round results in the rear carpets getting wet. Facing downhill never gets the rear wet, it just migrates there due to gravity if the car faces up hill later. The wetness tends to be in the driver's footwell, but every so often it's in the passenger side too. Sometimes the water has been half an inch deep!

So far I have done:
Cleaned the drains out inside the scuttle n/s and o/s - they were well clogged with dead leaves and "compost".
Cleaned out the drain inside the pollen filter housing.
Cleaned the rain cover above the air inlet/blower housing.
Cleaned the front door drains and the sunroof drains too.
Checked the door seals.

From loads of head scratching and investigating, it would appear the water is coming in through the floor-well heater ducting, and no matter what I've found and done, the rain still gets in. If the rain is gentle, there's no problem, but if it's heavy rain, it gets in.

What have I missed?

Thanks guys and regards to you all,
Mick.
Last edited by Mick F on 11 May 2013, 10:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Clio - it's raining in!

Post by Fake Concern »

Hi
Are you sure it's not the sunroof leaking? I have taken off & re sealed the glass roofs on both my daughters Mk2 Clios.
Symptons were just like yours, we didn't notice the headlining going soggy for ages. A suprising amount of water runs down the pillar & appears in the footwell, on one of them I had to take the carpets & underlay out to dry off.
May not be this, but worh a look!
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Mick F
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Re: Clio - it's raining in!

Post by Mick F »

Hi!
Wonderfully quick reply!

Sadly, I doubt it's the sunroof drains. The drains come down the B pillars and if I open the sunroof, I can pour water into the seal area and watch the water coming out onto the ground. Also, when the footwell is dry-ish, and then the rain gets in, it seems to have trickled down the carpet from the centre console to the front of the floor well.

I'll check the sunroof drain again, it was one of the first things I checked - so I may have rushed the job.

Thanks and regards,
Mick.
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Re: Clio - it's raining in!

Post by Fake Concern »

Hi
I don't mean the drain, I mean the sunfoof seal itself. The metal frame to the sunroof is clamped on with a seal strip stuck to the roof. This seal deteriorates and the water goes through, runs between the roof & headlining down the pillars, finding its way into the footwell. If you pull the trim holding the headlining to the inside of the sunroof aperture & the trim around the door on the pillar off, you may see signs of it.
Also ours were manual roofs & expect yours is electric, but I think the same applies.
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Re: Clio - it's raining in!

Post by Mick F »

Hi again,
Thanks for the clarification.

Just been out to the car again and opened the sunroof to see and fiddle with the roof seals.

The glass is sealed - when closed - against a rubber gaiter. This gaiter is in good condition and clean. The metal sunroof frame is fitted with its own seal sandwiching the roof and the headlining, and that too seems perfect and doesn't seem to be a weather-proof seal anyway. It isn't open to the weather when the roof is closed, as the glass is tightly pressed onto its rubber gaiter.

I can see no sign of water ingress through the sunroof at all - no staining and no dampness. Pity really, because if was the problem, at least I would see what to do!

Thanks and regards,
Mick,
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Re: Clio - it's raining in!

Post by lexi »

You will have to keep at it with the hose. Use butyl strip or similar to block off water in order to isolate test areas. Water is either backing up or ducting is punctured or dislodged.
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Re: Clio - it's raining in!

Post by Mick F »

Thanks for the advice.

I had hoped not to have to go through the "hose technique" as it was just possible that it was a problem that others have had. Looks like I'm gonna have to get the hose out.

As I seem to have discounted drains being blocked, I wonder about the air inlet ducting as it passes through the steel bulkhead. It must have a gasket around it but for the life of me I cannot see it to check. Perhaps the rain is tricking though the gasket and passing down through the centre console and appearing as if it's coming out of the ducting itself. I had a plan to place a tray or something under the heater outlet to catch the water, but the outlet is inside the console. It would prove one way or another if it's coming in from somewhere else or through the heater ducting. If it is coming through the gasket, I fail to see how it could back up enough seeing as the drains would take the rain water away.

The plastic scuttle covers should be tight against the window glass, but I reckon the plastic is getting tired and weak and allowing rain through the non-existant seal and into the area beneath. As we never get rain inside the car when we're actually driving, it could indicate something? If I gaffa taped the seal against the window ............. that may cure it?

Hose pipe trial is the next step without gaffa tape first.

Thanks and regards,
Mick.
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Re: Clio - it's raining in!

Post by Mick F »

Update.

I didn't use the hose, but I've put gaffa tape all along the bottom of the windscreen to seal off the plastic scuttles.

I'm waiting for another downpour!

Mick.
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Re: Clio - it's raining in!

Post by R9UKE »

Mick apologies if you've already mentioned it, but have you actually removed the wipers and scuttle panel to see what state the well below the windscreen is in? It's a very common fault with the Mégane II. The scuttle well fills with water with nowhere to go but through the air intake (killing the interior fan in the process) and flooding the footwells. It's happened on all 3 of our Méganes.

By the way - Clio Initiale, what a lovely little car. I intend to get one at some point. Leather and wood in a Clio :)
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Re: Clio - it's raining in!

Post by Mick F »

I couldn't get the wiper arms off as they are really solid on their spindles, so I wasn't able to take off the LH plastic scuttle, but I could see in.

There are two drain holes - with a rubber grommet - on both sides above the wheel arches. The RH one was completely clogged and it's now completely free. The LH one wasn't - and still isn't - blocked.

They are the only drains inside the scuttle area. I've blasted the hose into it and the water drains away freely.

I took out the cabin/pollen filter and peered inside the where the air inlet goes through the air conditioner. That too seems to have a drain and although it was a bit clogged, it's fine now. Where the drain may be in there, I don't know, but when I put the hose in there, the water comes out underneath the car.

There's a "rain cover" over the blower inlet on the RH side, I've taken that off and tried to see where rain could get in, but unless rain can go uphill I don't see how it could get in via the blower, then through the air conditioner, and then into the heater ducting.

Everything I've done or looked at leaves me mystified. The Clio was in for a service and MOT at our local garage last month and I asked them to check all the places they reckoned rain could be getting in and they found nothing wrong. They suggested the Clio went back to Renault!

Over the past few months, we've had torrential downpours - I'm in SE Cornwall by the way - and perhaps the torrents of rain are actually being blown right through into the heater ducts. I'm not sure about anything!

Hopefully it's going to rain buckets soon and hopefully the gaffa tape may make a difference. If it doesn't, I'm totally stumped.


Oh, and yes! The Initiale is a lovely car. :-D

Regards,
Mick.
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Re: Clio - it's raining in!

Post by lexi »

There is no cause without reason :lol: Garages and dealers don't want to be bothered with this stuff as it can mean hours of work with no result.

A puller can be used to get wipers off.
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Re: Clio - it's raining in!

Post by Mick F »

Yes, I'm going to borrow a puller. Take the wiper arms off and check underneath the panels properly.

I think I have a result. Nothing conclusive, but it's just possible I'm on the right track. As I said before, I've put gaffa tape right across the scuttle in an effort to seal the scuttle against the window.
Gaffa Tape.jpg
This raining in problem started late last November and every time it's rained "properly", the carpets filled with water. Now I have gaffa taped the scuttle and it poured down yesterday afternoon and most of the night the carpets are dry!
(We've had some long dry spells recently, and I've dried everything out)

This is the first time in six months that it's not rained in. :shock:

Therefore, the rain must be hitting the windscreen and running down inside the scuttle and filling up inside and finding its way into the car. Therefore, there must be another drain I don't know about that's blocked. Therefore I need to get the wiper arms off and look inside properly.

Thanks,
Mick.
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Re: Clio - it's raining in!

Post by Fake Concern »

At least you are narrowing it down now. For the wipers, I can't remember if they are on a spline like the C4. If they are, use a ball joint splitter.
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Re: Clio - it's raining in!

Post by Mick F »

Brilliant idea!
Why didn't I think of that!
I have a ball joint splitter from when I used to have a Mini.

Heaved it down last night and the car was still dry inside. This proves that the rain is getting in through the scuttle.

I went out earlier armed with my splitter, and with a bit of difficulty, I was able to crack off the wiper arms. Yes, they are tapered splines and well corroded on - looks like they've never seen any grease and they came off with a bang.

Scuttles off and hose pipe running and although there was quite a bit of leaf mould under and around the washer bottle area that I couldn't see before over on the LH side, I didn't see any problem.

At this point, I had the bonnet up and was peering under it. I closed the bonnet and had another look and it hit me! Not the bonnet, but the solution to the problem! :-D

There's a drain hole in the middle tucked away under the front of the scuttle that cannot be seen with the bonnet up. By spraying water in that area, it just filled up and surrounded the gland around the ventilation inlet into the car. No doubt the water was building up and seeping through the gland. The drain goes into a rubber tube an inch or so in diameter and ends with a little flap and tab at the bottom. By getting my hand to it behind the engine, I could "milk" it and all of a sudden, the water rushed out. I continued to flush the tube to make it clean.

I'm now 100% positive I've solved the rain leak, and I've refitted the wipers using copper anti-seize grease and cleaned off all the gaffa tape residue.

Here's some photographs. I've drawn arrows on them to show the centre drain and hopefully if there's anyone else out there with this problem, I have the solution!

Thanks for listening to me and giving advice, and regards to all.
Mick.
Top of centre drain tube.jpg
Centre tube 1.jpg
Centre tube 2.jpg
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Re: Clio - it's raining in!

Post by Fake Concern »

I'm glad you got to the bottom that. It's the sort of thing to drive you mad! I also have the ball joint splitter from previously owning Minis!
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