Peugeot 207 Vti crank no start ongoing issue

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darbuck
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Re: Peugeot 207 Vti crank no start ongoing issue

Post by darbuck »

it could be too ;ow of resistance in the sensor itself or corrosion on an engine ground
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Re: Peugeot 207 Vti crank no start ongoing issue

Post by MikeT »

darbuck wrote: 09 Sep 2017, 21:33 it could be too ;ow of resistance in the sensor itself or corrosion on an engine ground

Darren, the ECU is providing a 3.3v reference voltage, instead of the required 5v (tested with the ECU plug to the ECT disconnected)

The question is, has the ECU been damaged (and if so, how) or is there a rogue circuit elsewhere pulling this voltage down.
max1 wrote: 08 Sep 2017, 19:49 Thanks Mike. Yes of course Id love to get it fixed & I'm very appreciative of your help no question. Im just getting a bit weary as I've been without a car for 6 weeks now & need to think about my options.

I suppose reading live data will eliminate whether the ECU is seeing the engine crank or not. It would be good to find the MAP sensor as suggested elsewhere to read its voltage as well. As for unplugging all other sensors, this seems difficult as like you said they are accessed from under the car & I don't have suitable jack. Of course we haven't checked for spark yet either.


max, all you said is doable but if there's a more pressing need to sort out trasnport, maybe take a break from this for a bit?
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Re: Peugeot 207 Vti crank no start ongoing issue

Post by darbuck »

isorry Mike I missed that the ecu is providing 3.3V then the driver in the ecu is kaput but the 3.3v should still allow it to run but it would be heavy on juice if it runs due to it compensating but the fact it doesnt start would indicate crank sync or immobiliser issues ,did all sparks get tested. here look I think Max needs a break from it for a while anyway so maybe when he feels more inclined we can try to help. I will butt out for now anyway.
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Re: Peugeot 207 Vti crank no start ongoing issue

Post by MikeT »

darbuck wrote: 10 Sep 2017, 22:31 isorry Mike I missed that the ecu is providing 3.3V then the driver in the ecu is kaput but the 3.3v should still allow it to run but it would be heavy on juice if it runs due to it compensating but the fact it doesnt start would indicate crank sync or immobiliser issues ,did all sparks get tested. here look I think Max needs a break from it for a while anyway so maybe when he feels more inclined we can try to help. I will butt out for now anyway.


No problem darren, disappointing if the ecu is condemned. Any idea what might have killed it?
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Re: Peugeot 207 Vti crank no start ongoing issue

Post by darbuck »

It can be caused by water ingress along the wiring or by just entering the socket or sensor, the drivers are susceptible to shorting because of the coolant mixing with exposed electrical's a small charge can destroy them or even incorrect reistance, I am going by other marque's which aren't fused correctly causing all kinds of problems with the ECU but max will need to get it confirmed by a specialist but that would be my suspicion at this point if all else has been ruled out what remains must be the problem. (I am not familiar with Max's particular model ) so I could be jumping the gun.
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Re: Peugeot 207 Vti crank no start ongoing issue

Post by max1 »

darbuck wrote: 10 Sep 2017, 22:31 isorry Mike I missed that the ecu is providing 3.3V then the driver in the ecu is kaput but the 3.3v should still allow it to run but it would be heavy on juice if it runs due to it compensating but the fact it doesnt start would indicate crank sync or immobiliser issues ,did all sparks get tested. here look I think Max needs a break from it for a while anyway so maybe when he feels more inclined we can try to help. I will butt out for now anyway.


Thing is the code reads open circuit or short to positive, -40. So the ECU is just not seeing anything there at all despite the 3.3v.

I made a post here which pretty much confirms the ECU has failed somehow - https://www.scannerdanner.com/forum/pos ... ssues.html

I have found these guys who have good reviews so ill contact them & see if they can look at it. http://www.ecutesting.com/?gclid=CjwKEA ... oCcPfw_wcB

If you know of any other place (not BBA!) that is good please let me know.

Thanks for all the input so far.
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Re: Peugeot 207 Vti crank no start ongoing issue

Post by MikeT »

max1 wrote: 11 Sep 2017, 17:18 .I made a post here which pretty much confirms the ECU has failed somehow - https://www.scannerdanner.com/forum/pos ... ssues.html

I have found these guys who have good reviews so ill contact them & see if they can look at it. http://www.ecutesting.com/?gclid=CjwKEA ... oCcPfw_wcB

If you know of any other place (not BBA!) that is good please let me know.

Thanks for all the input so far.


Hi max, glad you mention danner's site. I've been using his tutorials too.
I think Tyler has missed one or two though. If I find them again, I'll link them but here's what I'm seeing...
I'm not sure precisely what Tyler means by "Thermistor signal circuits can't share a direct 5V reference source with other sensors" because danner has shown that the circuits can be mixed/shared between pull-up/pull-down circuits in other ways.

My point being, there's still hope of a cheaper fix (albeit odds maybe stacked against?).
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Re: Peugeot 207 Vti crank no start ongoing issue

Post by MikeT »

Oh, and I've since realised our power testing of the ECU was incomplete, not least because we didn't test the earths but that there's more to powering it too. Sorry, my bad.
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Re: Peugeot 207 Vti crank no start ongoing issue

Post by darbuck »

scanner danner is the dogs when it comes to automotive if you can understand everything he is saying, the guy has some serious knowledge, I think when dealing with petrol engines I think an oscilloscope is a must though, I hope to order one this month for an ongoing project car.My lexia doesnt have a measuring card and my wurth WOW and Delphi clone only read some systems.
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Re: Peugeot 207 Vti crank no start ongoing issue

Post by max1 »

MikeT wrote: 11 Sep 2017, 17:58
max1 wrote: 11 Sep 2017, 17:18 .I made a post here which pretty much confirms the ECU has failed somehow - https://www.scannerdanner.com/forum/pos ... ssues.html

I have found these guys who have good reviews so ill contact them & see if they can look at it. http://www.ecutesting.com/?gclid=CjwKEA ... oCcPfw_wcB

If you know of any other place (not BBA!) that is good please let me know.

Thanks for all the input so far.


Hi max, glad you mention danner's site. I've been using his tutorials too.
I think Tyler has missed one or two though. If I find them again, I'll link them but here's what I'm seeing...
I'm not sure precisely what Tyler means by "Thermistor signal circuits can't share a direct 5V reference source with other sensors" because danner has shown that the circuits can be mixed/shared between pull-up/pull-down circuits in other ways.

My point being, there's still hope of a cheaper fix (albeit odds maybe stacked against?).


Oh, hmm. Would be grateful if you could find what your talking about before I go ahead & send the ECU off! Thanks
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Re: Peugeot 207 Vti crank no start ongoing issue

Post by darbuck »

is that not the whole point of a multiplexed system i.e. multiple comms across the same circuits.
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Re: Peugeot 207 Vti crank no start ongoing issue

Post by darbuck »

Hi Max I just saw this post you might consider cleaning your egr valve it could be stuck open causing a massive vacuum leak this happened on a mates safira aswell I had forgotten about it with no codes. I am not convinced your ECTS is stopping the car from starting.

"My C5 X7 is coming up to 70,000 miles and the engine, whilst in my ownership, has always run impeccably.
However, over the last few months I noticed an occasional slight hesitation and lack of throttle response when accelerating.
A few weeks ago it started fine from cold but then had minute or two of missing, and reluctance to rev, which then suddenly cleared and it was back to normal.
It then ran perfectly so I made the unwise decision to defer a visit to my excellent local garage.
This of course came back to bite me in the bum, as last week it stalled in the middle of the road junction outside my house and absolutely refused to start, though it cranked over fine.
Also, it came up for the first time with the dreaded 'depollution system fault' message. At this stage I'd have welcomed even limp home mode, but still no joy, so out came the lads from the garage and it was towed into their workshop-fortunately only a mile away.
Of course next day, it started and perfectly again....
They put it on the code reader and found fault codes relating to the injectors and the EGR valve. The injector codes cleared straight away but the EGR one didn't, so a new Delphi EGR valve was ordered and fitted.
It appears that the EGR valve was intermittently sticking fully open and preventing the engine from running."
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Re: Peugeot 207 Vti crank no start ongoing issue

Post by max1 »

darbuck wrote: 11 Sep 2017, 19:46 is that not the whole point of a multiplexed system i.e. multiple comms across the same circuits.


The thermistor ref circuit is not directly connected to the CAN bus if thats what your thinking. As far as I know there will be a voltage sensing IC in the ECU that measures the voltage across the thermistor/ETC which then tells the ECU what the temp is. As far as I understand, the voltage divider circuit that the thermistor uses needs its own closed 5v reference to work properly. However, as Mike has just said, it may not be as cut & dry as this!?
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Re: Peugeot 207 Vti crank no start ongoing issue

Post by MikeT »

max1 wrote: 11 Sep 2017, 19:40 Oh, hmm. Would be grateful if you could find what your talking about before I go ahead & send the ECU off! Thanks


Even if I'm right, I still can't fathom if there were other circuits that would cause this specific voltage-drop so it could well be a red herring but worth exploring I think?

This is isn't the video I mean, but does show how a bad MAP pulled down the shared 5v.
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Re: Peugeot 207 Vti crank no start ongoing issue

Post by max1 »

darbuck wrote: 11 Sep 2017, 20:18 Hi Max I just saw this post you might consider cleaning your egr valve it could be stuck open causing a massive vacuum leak this happened on a mates safira aswell I had forgotten about it with no codes. I am not convinced your ECTS is stopping the car from starting.

"My C5 X7 is coming up to 70,000 miles and the engine, whilst in my ownership, has always run impeccably.
However, over the last few months I noticed an occasional slight hesitation and lack of throttle response when accelerating.
A few weeks ago it started fine from cold but then had minute or two of missing, and reluctance to rev, which then suddenly cleared and it was back to normal.
It then ran perfectly so I made the unwise decision to defer a visit to my excellent local garage.
This of course came back to bite me in the bum, as last week it stalled in the middle of the road junction outside my house and absolutely refused to start, though it cranked over fine.
Also, it came up for the first time with the dreaded 'depollution system fault' message. At this stage I'd have welcomed even limp home mode, but still no joy, so out came the lads from the garage and it was towed into their workshop-fortunately only a mile away.
Of course next day, it started and perfectly again....
They put it on the code reader and found fault codes relating to the injectors and the EGR valve. The injector codes cleared straight away but the EGR one didn't, so a new Delphi EGR valve was ordered and fitted.
It appears that the EGR valve was intermittently sticking fully open and preventing the engine from running."


Thanks for this, yes there could well be something else as well now that is adding to the no start. However it was running perfectly one day but then the next was a complete no start so sticky EGR valve seems unlikely at this stage. If the ECU is reading -40 then it will dump a s*it load of fuel into the engine, this is my thinking anyhow. If you google 'P0118 no start' there a lots of people who have no start condition.
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