Help required with another leak please : )

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spiff
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Help required with another leak please : )

Post by spiff »

UP DATE

Having just looked up the pump details online type SD7V16 it says it is a refrigerant pump ?

This looks as though the car unknown to us has air conditioning : )

The steering pump then is the smaller one at the top visible while looking under the bonnet ?

I looked online and the compressor has oil in it

It never ceases to surprise me how much I do not know : )

Whether the leak is compressor oil or hydraulic fluid I shall have to check.



Good evening gentlemen it is cold once again 1.1c in Mullion Cove : )

C5 2003 petrol estate.

We have done about 100 miles since replacing the front height sensor and the seals on the rear driver side suspension ram.

Yesterday I spotted a small pool of fluid from the front drivers side.

Today I took the cover off under the engine compartment and cleaned all the dirt and fluid off round the mechanical pump that I think is for the power steering.

I then left the engine running while we chain sawed some logs : ).

No leak, I then turned the steering from one lock to the other and some drops appeared from the bottom of the power steering pump.

The alternator is directly above the pump so I cannot see exactly where the fluid is coming from.

I took a lot of pictures but the most relevant ones after cleaning all the dirt off are attached.

Have any of you most knowledgeable gentlemen had a similar problem ?

If not I shall have to take the alternator off to see the top of the suspension pump.

Going by the wet look of the dirt something round the pump or the pump has been weeping for some time.

God Bless Spiff
Attachments
Leak 1.jpg
Leak 2.jpg
Pump Type.jpg
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Re: Help required with another leak please : )

Post by wurlycorner »

That's the air conditioning pump. All c5's have air con (even the base LX).
That pump is unlikely to be leaking any fluid (the system basically has only gas in it) so if there's something leaking from that, it's more likely dripped onto it from above, first. My guess would be an oil leak from something on that side of the engine near the top (Cam cover etc) or just where someone made a mess topping up the oil.

Take the cover off the top of the engine and see what you can see.
If you haven't had the cover off before, twist the four black caps through 90^ and then pull them off, then you can lift the engine cover off. The engine cover sits on top of four rubber posts that screw into the top of the engine. Given the age of your car, you'll probably find that when you twist the caps instead of the cap twisted as its meant to, the rubber post shears off (the bottom of the post is bonded to a screw that bolts into the top of engine). They're cheap to replace though.
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spiff
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Re: Help required with another leak please : )

Post by spiff »

Good morning Ian, Thank you for your reply.

The top engine cover is missing which does not surprise me : )

I had the bottom cover off a couple of months back when I checked the auto gear box oil level.

At that time I cleaned the bottom cover both sides before replacing it, this leak has happened since then as the dripping was spilling over the drivers side of the tray.

I did top up the suspension fluid after the repair to the rear suspension ram, I do not recall spilling any and the tank is I think too far over to be the cause.

There is oil in the compressor as it had a recommended type on its label sp10, a bit like a fridge compressor I suppose it runs in oil.

Air conditioning that sounds really posh : )

MOT is due next month so have to sort it out in case it is hydraulic fluid, I was not sure smelling it but then it was freezing out there : )

The sun is out again to day a barmy 4.7C.

God Bless Spiff
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Re: Help required with another leak please : )

Post by lexi »

If it is the air con compressor, don't worry. You can eliminate it by fitting a shorter belt, rather than cough up to keep air con. Check it out for oil leaks above once weather fairs.
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Re: Help required with another leak please : )

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Spiff, that R134a is the refrigerant to be used in this compressor. When it is re-gassed properly using a machine, they usually add a quantity of oil to the system as well.

HFO-1234yf or R1234yf are the new refrigerants for newer vehicles when in 2011, the European directive 2006/40/EC came into effect. The 2 aren't interchangeable - so stick to R134a if it needs re-gassing. An A/C service can be done for £50 at a lot of paces like ATS and Kwik Fit - where they will drain and refill with the correct amounts of gas and oil. If the AC compressor is low on refrigerant, it will shut off to protect the system. One way to check is to start the car and switch off the AC manually using the button on the dash, then switch it on and check to see if you can hear the compressor clutch engage and the fan should start too.
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spiff
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Re: Help required with another leak please : )

Post by spiff »

Thank you Lexi and Marc for your advice.

The oil that is coming out looks a normal oil colour, similar to the replacement fluid I topped the suspension tank up with.

No idea what the oil in the compressor would look like.

I am not sure if it smells the same, I shall have to sample them side by side, could be my nose is suffering from old age. : )

It is close to zero and snowing hard so I think I will leave it for today.

As soon as it clears I will have a good clean round the steering pump, then fit some card or something similar round and under it to see if it is the culprit.

Marc as we are looking for a younger low mileage C5 if it is the AC compressor I will bypass it as suggested, it is not worth a new compressor and re-gassing, but good knowledge to have for the next C5 : )

Never though of a shorter belt.

God Bless Spiff
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Re: Help required with another leak please : )

Post by spiff »

The snow has stopped so I had another look with a mirror on a stick, it has a nice bright built in LED.

It shows under the steering pump it looks to be the source, but exactly where on the pump it is coming from I am not sure.

There is a lot more fluid around apart from the drip, but it does not show up in the image very well.

The alternator has always looked as though oil has been leaking on it, way before the puddle appeared.

It could be it has been leaking for some time and just got a lot worse : )

The top of the pump is dry.

Is anything fixable on the pumps I wonder ?

There are some cheap used ones on eBay : )

God Bless Spiff
Attachments
Leak 1.jpg
Leak 2.jpg
Leak 3.jpg
Last edited by spiff on 18 Mar 2018, 22:09, edited 1 time in total.
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spiff
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Re: Help required with another leak please : )

Post by spiff »

On eBay there is a power steering pump repair kit

MSG Citroen C5 1997-2004,2004-2008,2008

It also says it fits other vehicles : -

Suitable for car Alfa Romeo 159, Alfa Romeo Brera, Alfa Romeo Spider, Citroen C5, Fiat Doblo, Fiat Scudo, Fiat Strada.

It is from Przesyłka zagraniczna - zwykła.

The kit costs £11.93 unfortunately the postage is £16.12.

I have not so far been able to locate a kit in the UK, but perhaps searching on the other vehicles if it is the same pump will come up with something.
Has anyone tried this ?

There are people in the UK offering to rebuild the pump so parts must be available. : )

God Bless Spiff
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Re: Help required with another leak please : )

Post by spiff »

Another day in the cold : )

The leak is from the join shown circled in the image, it keeps seeping out even with the engine off as can be seen just after cleaning it off.

I have ruffed it up and applied Araldite, you never know : )

Other faults have shown up one being the alignment of a pulley please see image and a split in a rubber pipe feeding the pump.

God Bless Spiff
Attachments
Leak Split 2.jpg
Pully alignment.jpg
Pipe Split.jpg
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Re: Help required with another leak please : )

Post by spiff »

Do any of you most knowledgeable gentlemen know if steering pump part number 9636986580 & 9636986680 are interchangeable

6580 and 6680 ?

God Bless Spiff
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Re: Help required with another leak please : )

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I can't help with those numbers, but I can tell you the right one you need is PSA Part number 4007 6A Spiff. Some are variable and others are not - and they differ due to the engines.
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Re: Help required with another leak please : )

Post by spiff »

Thank you marc,

You certainly give a lot of your time to the forum : )

I shall check that number out.

Also I managed to I miss type all three numbers, oh boy : ).

9636086580 & 9636086680

The VN number should have been VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]

Yesterday I used Araldite but there was pressure in the system.

Today I chipped it off then released the pressure cap and knocked the metal in round the leak, then applied some fresh Araldite.

Hoping to visit the first boot sale of the season tomorrow, if it holds : )

God Bless Spiff
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Re: Help required with another leak please : )

Post by GiveMeABreak »

So the part number 9636086580 is the equivalent of your original (4007 6A).
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Marc
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Re: Help required with another leak please : )

Post by spiff »

Thank You Marc,

The data below is from a Polish site selling the pumps, of course it does not mean that they are correct, but it appears that they sell one unit to fit all ?

They list my pump 9636086580 also the number you gave me 4007.6A, and 9636086680.

The reason I perked up at this is that there are some used 9636086680 on offer at lower prices and a Guarantee : )

I know your part numbers are 100% correct, it just gave me the idea that possibly a different one could be fitted.

This does not mean it will work as it should, but it was just a thought.

I am just explaining why I asked : )

God Bless Spiff

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Power-Steeri ... 1438.l2649

Power Steering Pump MSG CI 008
Suitable for car

Citroen C5, Fiat Scudo, Peugeot 407
OE number

9636086680, 4007.6A, 4007.7A, 40077A, 40076A, 5277FO, 4007CX, 4007AC, 4007.AV, 9636086580,9645653580, 4007ck, 1440121180, 4007GX,9685555680, 9040906580, 4007TQ, 9656405380,4007EA, 4007.RZ, 9688355380
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Re: Help required with another leak please : )

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Hi Spiff, I couldn’t really comment on individual sellers, but I would suggest there is a vested interest in them selling their parts.

I can only go on the OEM recommended part numbers, as there are a high number of people who order parts and they are not the right ones - despite the seller saying they are compatible. I would suggest they don’t always know the subtle differences in the pumps designed for different engine power / diesel/ petrol/ variable or invariable power steering for example.

Of course it is entirely possible it may fit, but will it operate as intended on your vehicle is the question 😁
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