GC4P (DV6C) Particulate Filter warning

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GC4P (DV6C) Particulate Filter warning

Post by Old-Guy »

A week ago, on the way home after the Injectors had been replaced, a message popped up on the display, something like: "Risk of particulate filter blocking. Refer to Handbook." and the SERVICE light came on. The message disappeared after about 10 seconds and the light stayed on. The light went off when we stopped for fuel and stayed off. We had a repeat shortly after we had stopped for a comfort break. I put this down to several miles of limping along on 3 cylinders after the injector failure.

Since then no messages or light - until this morning on our way to a hospital appointment! Cleared itself and didn't recur despite stopping off for various reasons on the way home. I've just consulted the Handbook - it says exactly the same for two different 'faults': "... is indicated by illumination of the service warning lamp, accompanied by an audible warning and a message in the multi-function screen." The two faults are "A low additive level" or "If there is risk of clogging" (of the DPF).

The message quoted above ought to relate to the second fault (but with Citroen who knows) for which the fix, according to the Handbook, is:-
"To regenerate the filter, it is advised
to drive as soon as possible, when
traffic conditions permit, at a speed
of 40 mph (around 60 km/h) or
more for at least five minutes (until
the alert message disappears)."
That doesn't add up, as the message disappears within about 10 seconds!!!!

Surely an hour and a half belting up the M5 (70+ in 6th) ought to have thoroughly regenerated the filter? Any advice please?

On the subject of 'Additive', can anyone tell me please how to find out for certain exactly what this should be for my GC4P (Eolys176 / Infineum F7995 / Rhodia Powerflex / Rhodia DPX42), where to find the tank/pouch and how to tell if it really is low?

BTW I've used Shell diesel for years and run the GC4P on V-Power since the first injector failure.
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Re: GC4P (DV6C) Particulate Filter warning

Post by GiveMeABreak »

The amount of additive in the pouch / tank depending on what you have is only a calculated guess, as it is not measured directly. The system uses various methods - more commonly the amount of fuel in the tank when stopped, if fuel cap is removed (on some) then check fuel on next engine start and calculate the amount gone in and therefore work out how much to inject etc etc.

So if you are around the mileage for a pouch replacement / top up, best to do it. As for the additive used - you can always check on the colour of the click fit connector as to the right type.

How many miles has it done? At some point the filter will be clogged with cerine, a chemical component of the additive which does not get burnt - and this is what ultimately blocks up the filter.

If the filter gets anywhere from 70% soot blockage and upwards, regeneration (even a manual one) may not be possible at all and this will necessitate a manual clean.

There are now 'deep cleaners' - chemical products that can clean DPFs that have not been able to regenerate, but the PSA system is generally very good - allowing for varying driving habits and adapting the regeneration cycle to suit driving styles.

So Lexia would be able to tell you the level of soot in the filter and IIRC the eolys additive estimation.
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Re: GC4P (DV6C) Particulate Filter warning

Post by RichardW »

You need to get it on Diagbox to really understand what it going on, but some thoughts.

The actual message does go after a few seconds, leaving the service light on.
Bowling along the motorway should be plenty to re-gen it.
Did it come on when you were giving it some welly? Possibly the pressure drop is a bit high, and hard work may have exceeded the allowable pressure drop.
How many miles has it done? I would expect the Eolys to last 80-90k - and in any case I would expect this to give a direct message to that effect (ours did) - and for it to stay on (well service light on, message at each start plus any other time it puts a message up, e.g low fuel, ice!).
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Re: GC4P (DV6C) Particulate Filter warning

Post by Old-Guy »

Thanks chaps.

It's only done about 60,200.

My thinking was that the £40 or so to have the codes read might be better spent on filling the additive tank or replacing the pouch - if only I knew where to look for it and what it looked like!

SERVICE light goes out at next start, message has come up just 3 times, no apparent linkage except the first and last times we we going gently up hill in 3rd. Had been given much more welly plenty of times in the same journey without triggering the fault.

PLEASE can someone tell me where to find the elusive tank/pouch? I can't even find it on service.citroen.com - though that's not unusual!
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Re: GC4P (DV6C) Particulate Filter warning

Post by GiveMeABreak »

PM you VIN Guy and I'll let you know what you have
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Re: GC4P (DV6C) Particulate Filter warning

Post by Stickyfinger »

I have a Lexia over here Nr Frome/Shepton if you want a reading
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Re: GC4P (DV6C) Particulate Filter warning

Post by Old-Guy »

Thanks for the offer Alasdair; we were thinking about a run down to the 'Levels' Saturday or Sunday to have a look at the birds, would you be around if we came the pretty way over Mendip?
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Re: GC4P (DV6C) Particulate Filter warning

Post by RichardW »

It's on the OS just in front of the rear wheel - and it is a pouch on these. You can refill them, but when I stripped ours out I found it was leaking, so just as well I had coughed for a new bag! Like I say, if it was the additive, it would say that and it would stay on till you did something about it. This vid shows where it is:

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Re: GC4P (DV6C) Particulate Filter warning

Post by GiveMeABreak »

They say the pouches aren’t intended to be reused as they rip when they removed from the housing.
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Re: GC4P (DV6C) Particulate Filter warning

Post by RichardW »

In fact appears that the later ones are a bit different - comes as a complete unit (and costs £215 from Citroen!) like this

Edit... which, having looked again is the type in the Vid.
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Re: GC4P (DV6C) Particulate Filter warning

Post by Old-Guy »

Richard you're a star. I would have thought so too, but I have no experience with automotive electronics (beyond the eccentricities of the Xantia's ABS system where 'faults' were more often down to dirty connections than actual failures; I only had to replace a single wheel sensor v. half-a-dozen or dirty connections/ broken cables.

The reliance that can be placed on software generated messages is down to the foresight, knowledge and, above all, diligence of the software specifier. I know, I have been successively a software programmer, designer, specifier and auditor.

The GC4P is becoming a money-pit! I'd love to go back to a Xantia :rofl2: but proper (S1) Xantias are 20+ years old now, the workshop I 'borrow' is being pulled down in a few months :( and I'm a dozen years older and stiffer than I was when we bought the 'Green Lady'.
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Re: GC4P (DV6C) Particulate Filter warning

Post by RichardW »

When you run the diagnostic, check first for any fault codes and note these down - both engine and DPF ECU. Then check in both the engine and additive ECU for amount of additive remaining. Then check the live data in the engine ECU associated with the DPF (standard parameter measurements). Check that the pressure drop is 0 mbar engine off. Start the engine and check what (if anything) it rises to. Rev the engine and see how it changes. If possible take it for a drive, including some up hill stretches, and observe the pressure drop. Check also the indicated soot loading, 'additive remaining in the filter', time since last regen, and average of last 5 regens. All that will give a good indication as to the health of the DPF and its associated fittings.
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Post by Eddie Nuff »

GiveMeABreak wrote: 22 Feb 2018, 17:58 If the filter gets anywhere from 70% soot blockage and upwards, regeneration (even a manual one) may not be possible at all

I've cleaned four of these manually, one in the 70's, two in the 60's and one mid 50's, although it should be noted they were all 16v engines.
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Post by Eddie Nuff »

Old-Guy wrote: 22 Feb 2018, 21:58 The GC4P is becoming a money-pit!

Having had quite a few go through my hands this past couple of years I can honestly say that a good one is a fantastic car, well worthy of its plaudits, but a bad one is a serious money pit that is only worth selling on or stripping.
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