Anyone know anything about C2 // C3 racks? - NOW ALSO FAULT FINDING

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Anyone know anything about C2 // C3 racks? - NOW ALSO FAULT FINDING

Post by wurlycorner »

Wondering if anyone can help me out, trying to suss out the differences in steering racks used on C2 and C3 models?

I need a rack for the mrs' C2 Loeb.
The one she's got isn't suitable for exchange (because the casting is cracked) so I need to get a complete replacement. Obviously I am NOT going to be forking out for a new one from Citroen (£929).

According to Citroen, her car has a rack with part number 4000TZ, marked 60DHMM or 60DHPT (this is on the sticker on the motor) and this is a 65 Amp rack.
I cannot trace this part number to any C2 model other than the Loeb (not even the 125bhp VTS that the Loeb is based on). That's based on searching service.citroen and getting breakers to check the numbers on their racks from other models.

I can't find a used rack off a C2 Loeb or with the right part number *anywhere* (have been searching now for over a month) aside from one guy breaking a Loeb on ebay, who has gone all silent.

From what I can make out, racks fitted to other C2 models;
- The 123bhp Code/VTS uses part number 4000WV, marked 60DHLC, 50DHPL or 60DHHH and this is a 60 Amp rack
- The 110bhp VTS/VTR uses either part number 4000TS, marked 60DHPJ // 60DHHF as a 65 Amp rack, or the same rack as the VTS (part number 4000WV marked 60DHLC, 50DHPL or 60DHHH as a 60 Amp rack)
(and there are then other racks for the smaller engined models.)

C2 and C3 seem to use the same series of racks, but I haven't found a C3 that takes the 4000TZ.

Looking at the after market re-conditioners, they either offer no details on what type they're selling, or simply refer to the number of turns - 2.75 or 3.25 turn. This is useless - how the hell do you know what you're actually getting and whether it was the right original spec for the car?!

I'm presuming a 60 Amp rack won't work on an ECU that was set up to run a 65 Amp rack (even though an electrical component will only draw whatever current it wants - you can't 'force' more Amps into it) or even if it does work (I've no doubt it can physically be fitted) that it will 'feel' different. And... I want the car to be 'right'.

So...
What actually are the differences in the racks?
Does anyone know?

Or can anyone interrogate service.citroen further, to find out more info???

Cheers
Last edited by wurlycorner on 30 Mar 2018, 17:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Anyone know anything about C2 // C3 racks?

Post by wurlycorner »

No one?
:(
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Re: Anyone know anything about C2 // C3 racks?

Post by Stickyfinger »

We can look at Cit Service for you, post up your Vin No so the part can be checked)
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Re: Anyone know anything about C2 // C3 racks?

Post by RichardW »

I think you've got at much info as there is...! There seems to be another 65A rack - I would guess higher power racks are for cars with heavier engines / wider tyres; and I would guess that the sportier versions (eg yours) use the quicker rack - how many turns LTL is your current one? Although there is no exploded diagram on service.citroen I would hazard a guess that the castings are all the same, and you could get any rack, strip it for the casting and then rebuild yours using the recovered casting.
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Re: Anyone know anything about C2 // C3 racks?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I don’t know if it is more than what you already have said, but different power, turns and physical size - but they will differ probably to cope with different engine sizes and therefore weight of the vehicle plus from what I’ve picked up the wheel sizes / widths, as I suspect the elecric steering needs to fit the vehicle application / class.

Edit: Coincided with your post Richard
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Re: Anyone know anything about C2 // C3 racks?

Post by wurlycorner »

Thanks guys.

I had thought about buying just any old rack (cheapest option) for the casting.

The current rack also has another fault, in that it's heavy one direction, light the other, so its not a simple job of just swapping the casting.

I'm thinking the only solution might be to buy a spare rack for the casting, take off the current rack and give both to an overhauler, with strict instructions only to use the casting off the spare rack. I was trying to avoid that though, since I end up with the car in bits, marooned on the ramp for (probably) a couple of weeks.

No doubt I could do the rack myself, but I don't really fancy overhauling the rack myself, since I have no means of testing the rack off the vehicle (and don't want to refit it unless I know the heavy left/right fault is fixed*) and don't have the time.


*I should add that the rack is completely sandwiched between the subframe and the chassis. Subframe must be dropped in order to get it out, so I definitely only want to do it once!!!
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Re: Anyone know anything about C2 // C3 racks?

Post by ekjdm14 »

Do you not think the heavy/light fault is an effect of the cracked casting? Not sure where it's cracked but it's possible the stresses are causing it to pinch up one way.

What a royal pain though, be cheaper to find a whole rear-ended Loeb for parts than that new rack!
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Re: Anyone know anything about C2 // C3 racks?

Post by wurlycorner »

Nah, the heavy left/light right is a different problem (not uncommon in these racks :roll: )
The crack is unexplained. It's in an odd place, can't see how it occurred.

I will get round to putting up a profile thread with all the stuff I have done (and found) on the thing so far.

A used loeb wouldn't be much, yep. Not common though. All the ones being broken that I've contacted have said the rack isn't available. And I won't break a good car, since they're so rare.
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Re: Anyone know anything about C2 // C3 racks?

Post by wurlycorner »

The different power unit weights and tyre sizes makes sense in the rack power, BTW - hadn't thoughy of that, so thanks.
What leaves me confused though, is why the VTS, with the same engine, wheels/tyres and heavier spec, would use a lower powered rack :dunno:

I will try emailing Citroen to ask what the difference in spec is, between 4000TS and 4000TZ. Given my last experience with them on the phone about inability to supply a clutch for the car though, I don't expect much joy! (Which is a shame, because they used to have people in slough that could actually answer technical queries.) However, we shall see...

I'm gonna guess...
4000TZ = 65 amp, 2.75 turns lock-lock
4000TS = 65 amp, 3.25 turns lock-lock
4000WV = 60 amp, 3.25 turns lock-lock
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Re: Anyone know anything about C2 // C3 racks?

Post by wurlycorner »

Query is in...
Image

Who wants to bet on my getting a useful response back! :lol:
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Re: Anyone know anything about C2 // C3 racks?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I suspect they'll just ask you for the car VIN for which you want the rack and refer you to the correct replacement part! I've previously had very little back from them at head office - they simply don't seem to have an interest - unless you happen to get the right person.
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Re: Anyone know anything about C2 // C3 racks?

Post by wurlycorner »

Yeah agreed - although that's not how it used to be... I've had some decent responses from the people in Slough in the (now distant!) past!
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Re: Anyone know anything about C2 // C3 racks?

Post by Stickyfinger »

Try asking the guys on Pure Citroen (Facebook group), lots of them run C2's, many modified, so they may know about options/parts.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/purecitroen/
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Re: Anyone know anything about C2 // C3 racks?

Post by wurlycorner »

Thanks for the suggestion - one problem....
I don't (and won't) have an evilbook account!

I've already asked on the C2club forum, but no-one knows on there.

Have also rung a London-based rack re-conditioner and enquired about my plan for giving them 'any old casting' + my faulty rack for parts swap across and fault repair. The lady on the end of the phone has said someone will call me back later today...
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Re: Anyone know anything about C2 // C3 racks?

Post by Stickyfinger »

I have asked for you.....
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