Citroen C5 - Which gearbox?

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

Online
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 36995
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
Location: West Wales
My Cars: C3 Aircross SUV HDi Flair Peperoncino Red (The Chili Hornet)
C5 X7 2.0 HDi Exclusive Mativoire Beige (The Golden Hornet)
C3 1.6 HDi Exclusive Aluminium Grey (The Silver Hornet)
C5 MK II 2.0 HDi Exclusive Obsidian Black
C5 MK I 2.0 HDi SX Wicked Red
Xantia S2 2.0 HDi SX Hermes Red
C15 Romahome White
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Emerald Green Pearlescent
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Polar White
XM 2.0 SX Polar White
CX 20 Polar White
GS 1220 Geranium Red
CX 2.4 Prestige C-Matic Nevada Beige
GS 1000 Cedreat Yellow
x 5644

Re: Citroen C5 - Which gearbox?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Cupi34 wrote: 22 Feb 2018, 16:47 Thanks for the replies.

I know that the diagnostic tool is used to reset the oil counter (electronic). And if you don't do this then you might have warning lights on the dashboard. And the gearbox paramaters isn't able to change to suit the new oil.

I personally don't believe that the four speed gearbox on a my car is so advanced that it is crucial to the operation of the gearbox. Must be much worse not changing the oil at all. The point of changing the oil is to make the gearbox last longer.

So when you change the oil without using a diagnostic tool will this in any way cause the gearbox not to function (I mean not being able to drive the car afterwards) ?


So you don't think your gearbox is advanced?
AL4.PNG
S - "normal" operating laws.
T - Gearbox reheating and protection laws.
" 1" Programme selector connection.
" 2" Gearbox oil temperature information.
(L1) Economy pattern.
(L2) Medium law.
(L3) SPORT pattern.
(L4) BRAKING pattern 1.
(L5) BRAKING pattern 2.
(L6) DESCENT pattern.
(L7) SNOW pattern.
(L8) Unlocked pattern.
(L9) Heating pattern.
(L10) Thermal protection pattern.
The ECU uses 10 selection laws :
  • 6 Auto-adaptive laws
  • 1 Law specific to the "snow" program
  • 1 Unlocked pattern
  • 1 Engine and gearbox reheating law
  • 1 Gearbox Overheating Protection pattern
You may not immediately - but over time the gearbox will start playing up if you don't reset the oil counter (I explained this to you previously I think). You have the AL4 and it is auto adaptive.

If the "sport" and "snow" warning lamps flash simultaneously, it signifies:
Presence of faults in the system (3rd hydraulic, also known as the "emergency mode")
  • That the gearbox oil has overheated
  • That the gearbox oil is old
So when that happens your gearbox will start going into backup mode to protect itself.

It's your choice of course if you decide not to do it - but you have been advised.
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help

Marc
Online
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 36995
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
Location: West Wales
My Cars: C3 Aircross SUV HDi Flair Peperoncino Red (The Chili Hornet)
C5 X7 2.0 HDi Exclusive Mativoire Beige (The Golden Hornet)
C3 1.6 HDi Exclusive Aluminium Grey (The Silver Hornet)
C5 MK II 2.0 HDi Exclusive Obsidian Black
C5 MK I 2.0 HDi SX Wicked Red
Xantia S2 2.0 HDi SX Hermes Red
C15 Romahome White
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Emerald Green Pearlescent
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Polar White
XM 2.0 SX Polar White
CX 20 Polar White
GS 1220 Geranium Red
CX 2.4 Prestige C-Matic Nevada Beige
GS 1000 Cedreat Yellow
x 5644

Re: Citroen C5 - Which gearbox?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Another reason why the gearbox oil counter should be changed - when the counter gets to 32958, (or sooner in some cases) it will enter 'Backup mode'.

There are 6 levels of backup mode on the AL4: As you can see, there normal function can be significantly impaired as a result.
Level No.Fault detectedResult
Level 1Kick-down inputNo impact on the operation of the gearbox
Level 2Gearbox fluid temperatureSlight degradation in the operation of the gearbox
Engine torque dataAffects driving comfort
Display control-
Locking actuator in position "P"-
Level 3Vehicle speedSignificant deterioration in gearbox operation
Lock-up modulation electrovalve (lock-up EVM)Poorer gear selection quality
Output : Torque reductionLoss of functions
Oil pressure sensor-
Supply to sensors-
Input : Brake switch-
The heat exchanger flow control electrovalve (EPDE)-
Throttle position information and engine torque information missing (supplied by the injection ECU)-
Level 4Engine speedSignificant deterioration in gearbox operation
Gearbox input speed sensor connectionLoss of functions
-Functions downgraded
Level 5Throttle potentiometer informationSelection of hydraulic 3rd when the ignition is switched on
Engine torque dataThis back-up mode is known as the "emergency mode"
multifunction switch (loss of the reverse gear safety system while driving)-
Analogue sensors supply-
Pressure modulation electrovalve-
Regulating the main hydraulic pressure-
Heat exchanger flow control electrovalve control-
Input speed sensor and output speed sensor-
Input speed sensor and engine speed information-
Output speed sensor and engine speed information-
Level 6ECU inactiveSelection of hydraulic 3rd gear
Sequence electrovalvesThis back-up mode is known as the "emergency mode"
Supply to the sequence electrovalves-
Uninitialised accelerator pedal-
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help

Marc
Cupi34
Posts: 28
Joined: 12 Dec 2017, 00:15
Location: Norway
My Cars: Citroen C5 2006 2.0i

Re: Citroen C5 - Which gearbox?

Post by Cupi34 »

Yes you have explained this to me previously. But not what could happen to the gearbox. Now you did. What do you mean by playing up?
Online
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 36995
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
Location: West Wales
My Cars: C3 Aircross SUV HDi Flair Peperoncino Red (The Chili Hornet)
C5 X7 2.0 HDi Exclusive Mativoire Beige (The Golden Hornet)
C3 1.6 HDi Exclusive Aluminium Grey (The Silver Hornet)
C5 MK II 2.0 HDi Exclusive Obsidian Black
C5 MK I 2.0 HDi SX Wicked Red
Xantia S2 2.0 HDi SX Hermes Red
C15 Romahome White
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Emerald Green Pearlescent
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Polar White
XM 2.0 SX Polar White
CX 20 Polar White
GS 1220 Geranium Red
CX 2.4 Prestige C-Matic Nevada Beige
GS 1000 Cedreat Yellow
x 5644

Re: Citroen C5 - Which gearbox?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

'Playing up' - apologies, I suspect the translator has literally translated this. it's an expression, meaning the gearbox ECU will put the gearbox into one of the backup modes above, probably Level 2 to start and then increasing in severity.
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help

Marc
Cupi34
Posts: 28
Joined: 12 Dec 2017, 00:15
Location: Norway
My Cars: Citroen C5 2006 2.0i

Re: Citroen C5 - Which gearbox?

Post by Cupi34 »

So the gearbox will overheat if the electronics is not happy, correct? Can the car be driven in level 6?
Does any of this damage the gearbox.
Online
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 36995
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
Location: West Wales
My Cars: C3 Aircross SUV HDi Flair Peperoncino Red (The Chili Hornet)
C5 X7 2.0 HDi Exclusive Mativoire Beige (The Golden Hornet)
C3 1.6 HDi Exclusive Aluminium Grey (The Silver Hornet)
C5 MK II 2.0 HDi Exclusive Obsidian Black
C5 MK I 2.0 HDi SX Wicked Red
Xantia S2 2.0 HDi SX Hermes Red
C15 Romahome White
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Emerald Green Pearlescent
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Polar White
XM 2.0 SX Polar White
CX 20 Polar White
GS 1220 Geranium Red
CX 2.4 Prestige C-Matic Nevada Beige
GS 1000 Cedreat Yellow
x 5644

Re: Citroen C5 - Which gearbox?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

The above table lists all the backup modes for reference. The level will depend on the problem. The point is that performance will degrade over time.

Under normal conditions the ECU will increment the oil counter by a low value. Under arduous conditions like when the oil temperature is very hot, the ECU will increment the oil counter by a higher value. As I said earlier, when it reaches the counter limit, the SPORT and SNOW warning lights flash, meaning the oil is at the end of its life and one of the backup modes will come on.

Not all these modes are associated with oil - they are activated through other faults, but leaving old oil in the system is a sure way to shorten the life of your gearbox.
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help

Marc
Post Reply