1993 Sinker Xantia HG fail!

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aerodynamica
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1993 Xantia 1.9 TD VSX Mk1 Sinker A.K.A Slugmobile 13'
'Old Katy'
previous convictions: totaling 52litres of LHM in one go:
1968 ID19B 'Old Polly' Stellar white
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker Silver
1992 XM 2.0 SEi Turbo Manual Anthracite Grey
1982 CX 20 Pallas 'Old Goldy'
1993 XM 2.1 SD Auto Light blue
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker light Blue
1982 BX 16 TRS 'Cyril' Vallelunga Red
1995 Xantia 1.9 D SX Auto Dark green
1977 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Aphrodite' Regatta Blue
1982 GSA Pallas SE Silver Pearl
1980 CX 2000 Reflex Vallelunga Red
1978 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Prometheus' Midnight blue
1984 BX 14E 'Cecil the slugmobile' Maroon
1987 Fiat Panda 'the mighty panda'
x 97

1993 Sinker Xantia HG fail!

Post by aerodynamica »

My Xantia, 'Auld Katy' , has been very dependable and with low for age miles and being a Mk1 Sinker VSX 1.9 TD with Hydractive, I think quite rare and worth preserving! But this morning after defrosting from an ice cube traveling along the steadily heating up blower suddenly blew ice cold! (thankfully the windows were all clear by this point) At first I feared a failed heater matrix but with a totally dry passenger footwell I thought I was lucky.. but something was wrong and it was as I alternately feared... the dreaded head gasket fauliure! 88K miles, 24 years old, it was a ticking time bomb! I have it in the garage now and I'm undertaking the work with all the easy stuff already removed. The exhaust manifold bolts look horrifically inaccessible!

Anyway, I will have the cyclinder head skimmed when it's off but I have a question: are there different gauges of gasket still available? Or did I pick up someone's post on here some time ago that said that not only one gasket thickness is available?

I carried out the same work on my old XM SEi 2.0 Turbo 3-4 years ago (on XM forum) and it all looks much the same on the 1.9TD Xantia except fer even less space!

Anyway, is there now a one size fits all Head gasket? I recall it might be a 'multi layer' type?
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Re: 1993 Sinker Xantia HG fail!

Post by RichardW »

Bad luck Graeme :(

As you say though, on a 1.9TD it's a case of when not if!

The original gaskets came in 3 thicknesses related to piston protusion above the block - but you are right that you would be best to go with a multi layer gasket these days.

If the exhaust manifold bolts are anything like a BX TD then you won't be able to get them out in situ(*) - I can confirm it's possible (just) to lift the head (on a BX anyway!) with manifold and turbo still attached. It is bloody heavy though :lol:

* the BOL laughingly refers to cutting down a 6mm allen key to get the centre bolt out - on mine, with the head on the bench I needed an 18" stilson to get this undone. No way was it coming out with a piffling half length allen key :evil:

If you're doing it in Carluke and you need a half hour hand to lift the head in and out, give me a shout.
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Re: 1993 Sinker Xantia HG fail!

Post by CitroJim »

Sorry to hear that Graeme but all XUDs pop their HGs eventually...
aerodynamica wrote: 20 Nov 2017, 00:19 Anyway, is there now a one size fits all Head gasket? I recall it might be a 'multi layer' type?


Yes, there is. It's described (I think) as a repair gasket and is thicker than standard... It is fine as all that it will do is lower the compression ratio a little but apart from that, no problem... Saves measuring pre-chamber protrusion and piston protrusion...

Do use new head studs too and don't forget the spacer on one of them and do have a light head skim ;)

Do also run a tap down the head stud threads in the block, just to clean them up...

Have fun with the manifolds :twisted:

Apart from those, the job is straightforward...
Jim

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Re: 1993 Sinker Xantia HG fail!

Post by lexi »

After that, you are good to go again for 150k or 24yrs :lol:
Are the Hdi's as prone to it?
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Re: 1993 Sinker Xantia HG fail!

Post by RichardW »

lexi wrote: 20 Nov 2017, 08:15 Are the Hdi's as prone to it?


No, almost unheard of on the HDi - pretty sure they are fitted with multilayer gaskets from the factory.

I'm sure Paul (CitroenXM) has a trick for HG on Xantia 1.9TDs - it might be splitting the turbo from the manifold in situ and leaving the turbo behind... drop him a PM and see if he's about.
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Re: 1993 Sinker Xantia HG fail!

Post by Michel »

lexi wrote: 20 Nov 2017, 08:15
Are the Hdi's as prone to it?


No, just on the ones I've owned. Or 2 of them at least! Very annoying. Then again, I've had an unbreakable Honda that blew it's headgasket. It must be just me.
aerodynamica
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Posts: 1299
Joined: 26 Dec 2007, 18:10
Location: Glasgow
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My Cars: 2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD VSX Mk1 Sinker A.K.A Slugmobile 13'
'Old Katy'
previous convictions: totaling 52litres of LHM in one go:
1968 ID19B 'Old Polly' Stellar white
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker Silver
1992 XM 2.0 SEi Turbo Manual Anthracite Grey
1982 CX 20 Pallas 'Old Goldy'
1993 XM 2.1 SD Auto Light blue
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker light Blue
1982 BX 16 TRS 'Cyril' Vallelunga Red
1995 Xantia 1.9 D SX Auto Dark green
1977 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Aphrodite' Regatta Blue
1982 GSA Pallas SE Silver Pearl
1980 CX 2000 Reflex Vallelunga Red
1978 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Prometheus' Midnight blue
1984 BX 14E 'Cecil the slugmobile' Maroon
1987 Fiat Panda 'the mighty panda'
x 97

Re: 1993 Sinker Xantia HG fail!

Post by aerodynamica »

Thanks everyone, I am indeed doing this in carluke Richard! I might even hit you up for this since you're clearly a masochist like me 😊
I think I left the exhaust manifold attached on the XM and lifted it up with the help of my dad using straps and a wood joist cut down. But he's 70 now...

Thanks all, I'll keep you updated on the adventure and I've not even mentioned strut tops yet..
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Re: 1993 Sinker Xantia HG fail!

Post by CitroJim »

I will be following closely Graeme..

One thing I will say is that there may not be room in a Xantia to lift the head complete with turbo... I may be wrong and other may say there is but it looks jolly tight to me...

I've found it easier to struggle the manifolds off - the exhaust one can just be pushed back - and just lift the bare head.

You're lucky you have no EGR on yours - it makes the job easier ;)
Jim

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Re: 1993 Sinker Xantia HG fail!

Post by RichardW »

Clip on belt covers too...!

There wasn't really room on the BX to get the head back in; I wrecked the first headgasket... Got a replacement, and then used a piece of cardboard to protect the block before slipping the new gasket in. Oh, and check that the oil feed to turbo is on the right side of the driveshaft BEFORE you torque the head down!!
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Re: 1993 Sinker Xantia HG fail!

Post by CitroJim »

RichardW wrote: 20 Nov 2017, 12:03 Clip on belt covers too...!


Yes, to anyone who has struggled with the later XUD covers those are just magical... Makes the job so easy...

Good advice on the oil feed Richard :)
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
aerodynamica
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Posts: 1299
Joined: 26 Dec 2007, 18:10
Location: Glasgow
Lexia Available: Yes
My Cars: 2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD VSX Mk1 Sinker A.K.A Slugmobile 13'
'Old Katy'
previous convictions: totaling 52litres of LHM in one go:
1968 ID19B 'Old Polly' Stellar white
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker Silver
1992 XM 2.0 SEi Turbo Manual Anthracite Grey
1982 CX 20 Pallas 'Old Goldy'
1993 XM 2.1 SD Auto Light blue
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker light Blue
1982 BX 16 TRS 'Cyril' Vallelunga Red
1995 Xantia 1.9 D SX Auto Dark green
1977 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Aphrodite' Regatta Blue
1982 GSA Pallas SE Silver Pearl
1980 CX 2000 Reflex Vallelunga Red
1978 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Prometheus' Midnight blue
1984 BX 14E 'Cecil the slugmobile' Maroon
1987 Fiat Panda 'the mighty panda'
x 97

Re: 1993 Sinker Xantia HG fail!

Post by aerodynamica »

Ha the clip on covers! The only reason to have a sinker.

Jim I think you're right about the space but it might just be possible. Ill go for the manifolds off ploy. The old BOL talks about taking of the studs too so maybe that shows the lack of space.

Oil pipe Richard! Is this a warning from experience?!

AEP have all the parts in stock apart from the hg but it'll be Friday before I can start anyway. Have new head bolts, rocker gasket, manifold gasket, thermostat etc to go on while I'm there. Will update!
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Re: 1993 Sinker Xantia HG fail!

Post by xantia_v6 »

Is this a case where undoing the top engine mount and tilting the engine forward would make life easier?
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Re: 1993 Sinker Xantia HG fail!

Post by CitroJim »

xantia_v6 wrote: 21 Nov 2017, 08:14 Is this a case where undoing the top engine mount and tilting the engine forward would make life easier?


It might and it most certainly did when doing an exhaust manifold gasket job on a TCT a few years back.

The ultimate amount of tilt you will achieve is determined by the turbo hitting the bulkhead...

Definitely worth a go!
Jim

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Re: 1993 Sinker Xantia HG fail!

Post by RichardW »

aerodynamica wrote: 21 Nov 2017, 08:03 Oil pipe Richard! Is this a warning from experience?!


Oh yes.... BX head back on, all going well (after the 2nd gasket was inserted :roll: ) torque the head back down, then get under and *bugger* (or words to that effect!). I was just able to bend the pipe enough to get it over the shaft, although that made it difficult to get the union back in the block. I struggled for ages and couldn't do it - had to get SWMBO to help in the end - with me pushing the union and she wielding the spanner, it went straight in :evil:
Richard W
aerodynamica
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Posts: 1299
Joined: 26 Dec 2007, 18:10
Location: Glasgow
Lexia Available: Yes
My Cars: 2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD VSX Mk1 Sinker A.K.A Slugmobile 13'
'Old Katy'
previous convictions: totaling 52litres of LHM in one go:
1968 ID19B 'Old Polly' Stellar white
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker Silver
1992 XM 2.0 SEi Turbo Manual Anthracite Grey
1982 CX 20 Pallas 'Old Goldy'
1993 XM 2.1 SD Auto Light blue
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker light Blue
1982 BX 16 TRS 'Cyril' Vallelunga Red
1995 Xantia 1.9 D SX Auto Dark green
1977 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Aphrodite' Regatta Blue
1982 GSA Pallas SE Silver Pearl
1980 CX 2000 Reflex Vallelunga Red
1978 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Prometheus' Midnight blue
1984 BX 14E 'Cecil the slugmobile' Maroon
1987 Fiat Panda 'the mighty panda'
x 97

Re: 1993 Sinker Xantia HG fail!

Post by aerodynamica »

Hi all, I started the work on Friday evening and Saturday everything is off.

In the end I removed all of the exhaust manifold nuts and refitted one to locate lossely, disconnected the exhaust downpipe and the turbo oil pipes and it has allowed the head to come off leaving the turbo and manifold still in the car. I then went ahead and removed the manifold and turbo. You have to remove the engine mount anyway because the lower part has a bolt that goes into the head. So I will take the opportunity to replace the timing belt tensioners that I bought but didn't fit when the TB was done last year.

Anyway here's how it began:
Image20171119_185122 by Graeme McNulty, on Flickr

It was fairly bubbling away..
Image20171119_185127 by Graeme McNulty, on Flickr

Ran like a dream though :-D

Easy bits off:
Image20171123_201033 by Graeme McNulty, on Flickr
Image20171124_164817 by Graeme McNulty, on Flickr

This bit fell off
Image20171124_223209 by Graeme McNulty, on Flickr

Followed by this bit
Image20171124_223223 by Graeme McNulty, on Flickr
Image20171124_223232 by Graeme McNulty, on Flickr

Here's the state of the gasket - not as 'in tatters' as the one that came out of my old XM SEi turbo a few years ago.
Image20171124_223240 by Graeme McNulty, on Flickr

There's quite a lot of space in the engine room now
Image20171124_223311 by Graeme McNulty, on Flickr
..Might change the steering pinion, gear linkages and the clutch and handbrake cables now that I can just lean in and reach them! Too bad they're all FINE at the time of this job.
Image20171124_223327 by Graeme McNulty, on Flickr
Graeme M
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