headlamp bulbs

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Re: headlamp bulbs

Post by GiveMeABreak »

renagade wrote:Good morning peoples ,have you guy's tried the led headlamp bulbs ???? Better/Worse ????
As far as I know, you can't just change these - as the headlamp dynamics and reflective properties are not designed to work with LED type lights. Your existing lights are 'E' approved and have to use 'E' approved bulbs. In other words you shouldn't fit an LED light into a fitting approved for a filament bulb as it will likely be a fail at the MOT. LEDs don't disperse their light in the same way that a filament headlight bulb does, so you will get incorrect patterns of light, or worse the incorrect beam pattern. Cars with factory fitted LED headlamps are made to work with those types of lights and are approved as such.

As far as headlights go - stick to the approved 'E' type, and get a decent brand with extra throw or output.
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Re: headlamp bulbs

Post by Paul-R »

I agree with what Marc says above. In addition the LED replacement bulbs that I did look at were marketed as for show use only. Looking at some adverts it seemed that they weren't very bright and so the lumen output is probably less than you would want.
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Re: headlamp bulbs

Post by Sloppysod »

renagade wrote:Good morning peoples ,have you guy's tried the led headlamp bulbs ???? Better/Worse ????
I started to write this before marcs input, but exactly as marc says

Light is a wonderful thing, with the right reflector you can bend it anyway you like, however, if the light source is not matched to the reflector then the light will typically not bend in the right direction. Just look at the 'lads' who fit after market HID conversions to their cars, yes a nice bright white light for them, but more often any oncoming traffic gets dazzled.

The parabola reflector and the lens of any headlamp unit fitted to a car has been designed and tested to suit a particular light output from a particular type of bulb, therefore, fitting a non standard after market bulb/HID lamp/LED unit will not work properly. Also remember, if your lights are not as designed the following can happen, MOT fail, Police fine, and if proven that your lamps dazzled an oncoming driver and you cause an accident you could have no insurance as most insurance companies now ask "Has the car been modified in anyway". [-X
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Re: headlamp bulbs

Post by renagade »

Thanks for that guy's that explains all. No good with LED's.
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Re: headlamp bulbs

Post by elma »

I had a try with them on indicators and rear lights a few years back and they were far more trouble than they were worth. Didn't try the headlights for the reasons above.
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Re: headlamp bulbs

Post by vborovic »

It really depends which LED headlights the OP is asking about ... there are 2 aftermarket solutions: first, the "regular" halogen-like LED bulb, which can get really hot, and it's a matter of time before the non-lighting components within it burn out ... they would look like this:

Image

The second solution is HID-style ... you have a LED headbulb with a ballast:

Image

The latter have much greater light output (although the 18000 lm in the example case seem farfetched TBH), but these are the ones that will beat the regular HID bulbs ... except in the lifetime department, but as the LEDs are evolving, it's a matter of time when they clear that issue as well

@ elma - You were probably missing resistors (CANBUS) which emulate regular bulb resistance, eliminating flicker and producing much better results than without it (LED bulbs with integrated resistors are very rare, even today)
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Re: headlamp bulbs

Post by GiveMeABreak »

These are not legal for public road use as headlamps in the Uk Vab.
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Re: headlamp bulbs

Post by vborovic »

Like on many different occasions, we're not discussion the road legality of items (that's each individual car owner's responsibility) ... renegade simply asked whether or not someone tried them, and I wanted to expand the discussion, about which of the two people are actually talking about (in terms of the light output, ligh beam quality, etc. compared to regular halogen bulbs), since so far they've be dismissed as not adequate for throwing light on the road, which is far from true
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Re: headlamp bulbs

Post by GiveMeABreak »

True, but should be pointed out nonetheless, as not everyone is aware of the law and the regs. in the UK.
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Re: headlamp bulbs

Post by white exec »

renagade wrote:Good morning peoples, have you guy's tried the led headlamp bulbs ???? Better/Worse ????
If your headlight optics were designed to run on halogen bulbs, you should stick with these, and simply buy the best halogen lamp you can find - such as the Philips or Osram suggested above.

LED "replacements" for simple insertion into H1/H4/H7 etc lampholders tend to use an array of surface-mounted LEDs, clustered together around a central cylindrical stalk, similar in shape to the original halogen lamp. Because of this, the light source is no longer "point source" like the original halogen filament, but a diffuse and spread-out item. This causes poor focus and beam scatter, with increased dazzle for other drivers, and light less well focussed on the road, on both dip and main beams. Best avoided.
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Re: headlamp bulbs

Post by elma »

In my case it was the mismatch between the lenses and reflectors with the LEDs. I did put in resistors and also tried different relays. The vehicle I tried it in was an ldv pilot.
The reason I found them unacceptable was the light only came out directly over the led and was difficult to see from an angle although it was bright. The more modern multi led bulbs, particularly filament ones do look very good. I personally wouldn't bother with them unless OEM on the vehicle as I believe the lenses would still need changing.
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Re: headlamp bulbs

Post by Zelandeth »

Given my more than passing interest in lighting tech if these things weren't so expensive I would certainly pick some up to do some careful before/after beam analysis.

A lot of modern cars do struggle a bit simply due to the tiny size of the reflector due to styling constraints or because the car was really designed for HID lamps and their fancy optics that the top end trim levels got.

Best cars I've had for headlights are my Saab and Lada - both use old fashioned H4 lamps, but have a huge reflector and lens - Lada one must be the best part of twice the size of the dip beam one on the Xantia, result being a better defined and controlled beam spread.

Worst recent ones I've come across were on a 2013 Ford Fusion - that was virtually undriveable after dark the headlights were so poor.

If anyone has any sort of non-standard lamps they would like tested rolling around feel free to drop me a PM. Not going to recommend anything non approved for road use, but it can be interesting to see how well (or not!) these things work sometimes.

Looking at that kit mentioned above though...180W LED array in that small an area? No chance...it would cook itself in minutes at that power rating without some serious cooling kit (see liquid cooling with an external radiator) which I can't see any evidence of. Commercial LED lamps usually run in the region of 60-80Lm/W in the real world, I'd expect a bit less in this sort of setup as there will be compromises made to keep size down, and that will have a negative effect on cooling - and that in turn reduces efficiency and lifetime expectancy.

...Could go on for a while here, but typing this on a tiny phone screen so that's probably enough for now. Happy to delve into this in more detail and pull some actual example numbers and such out of real data sheets (I do admit that I haven't really rummaged around the world of LED lighting in a while in detail) rather than my own memory if folks are interested, and look in a bit more detail at possible beam pattern issues and cooling challenges etc.
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Re: headlamp bulbs

Post by white exec »

Zelandeth wrote: Best cars I've had for headlights are my Saab and Lada - both use old fashioned H4 lamps, but have a huge reflector and lens - Lada one must be the best part of twice the size of the dip beam one on the Xantia, result being a better defined and controlled beam spread.
Won't forget just how good the standard BX headlights were. Huge reflectors again. We had some H4s in them, but 100/80W. Fabulous!

Back in the 60s and 70s, the standard staple was 5.75" and 7" round Lucas units, usually 'sealed beam' all-glass tungsten. Pretty good, but blown out of the water by Hella's same size flat-fronted Halogen units, which got fitted to most things German, including Golf. Because they took H4, the way was open for installing the Hella kit in many cars. We did this on Rover 3500S (four units, each 100/80W H4, two for dip and four for main - daylight!), as well as Dolomite 1850. The units were available new, or the scrapyards were full of them. Some additional relays are decent wiring were obligatory.

A few cars went as far as 4 x 7" - ?? Ford Zephyr, Range Rover and Bristol. Even better!

Oh to have had Nightbreakers available then.
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Re: headlamp bulbs

Post by vborovic »

Zelandeth wrote:Commercial LED lamps usually run in the region of 60-80Lm/W in the real world
CREE has products that are way over 300 Lm/W today
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Re: headlamp bulbs

Post by Paul-R »

white exec wrote:We had some H4s in them, but 100/80W. Fabulous!
But not on the public roads of course! [-X

Back in the late 70s / early 80s I built a Vauxhall Chevette to go rallying in. I bought a pair of Cibié Oscar+ driving lamps (not fogs or spots) with 100w bulbs fitted for going through the forests at night. I couldn't resist trying them out of course [-X and when driving home I flicked to main beam to see what the combined system (headlamps had ordinary 60/55 H4s) was like. Incredible! The road was lit up for hundreds of metres ahead of me and when I rounded a corner and illuminated a road sign the reflected light back at me like a searchlight.
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