Worrying "crack" heard when closing window

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MikeT
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Worrying "crack" heard when closing window

Post by MikeT »

As the window closed and engaged with the recesses of the door, I heard a loud compressed cracking/shattering sound I would associate with car glass breaking (but the visible portion of the glass remained fully intact). I'm now hesitant to investigate in case it's been weakened and will completely shatter or drop if further disturbed.

The only option I seem to have is to remove the door card and have a looksee but that requires partly winding the window down so I'm in a catch-22 situation as doing so could risk total failure of something I don't have spares for.

Do I have any other option(s)?

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CitroJim
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Re: Worrying "crack" heard when closing window

Post by CitroJim »

That's a bit worrying Mike...

I think a bullet has to be bitten here.

All I know id the glass must be intact as it's just ordinary 'Triplex' and if it was the cause then it would have shattered instantly into a gazillion pieces. That it hasn't I'd opine that it is safe to investigate further.

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Re: Worrying "crack" heard when closing window

Post by electronmirror »

This is the plastic slider clip that has broken and it does sound quite dramatic when it happens. It might also be the cable has rusted through as well though I'd say unlikely. Have a look at this item number on eBay 320959583630, it's cheap enough when compared to the price of a new window regulator complete from Citroen ( approx £200 if it hasn't gone NFP yet!) Bear in mind they are handed left and right so if it's the driver's door window that's gone you'll need the right clip.

As Jim suggests you'll have to bite the bullet and take the door card off to see exactly what's gone. At least if you buy the clip before you start dismantling the door you can do the whole job in about 2 hours first time around. It's a bit of a faff getting the window regulator out through the hole but it is possible without bending or straining anything.

Good luck :)

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Re: Worrying "crack" heard when closing window

Post by MikeT »

Thanks for the advises.

After mindlessly opening the window found it wouldn't go back up but at least it's still in one piece. Took the door card off and cut the foam for access but viewing is limited and I couldn't see anything visibly broken. I found a cable loop hanging in the air

Image

and at the bottom end of that runner appears to be a spring-loaded pulley which I assume the cable should loop round. Other than that, I haven't a scoppy-doo of what should be and what's broken.

Image

This is about all I can see so still no idea what's going on :oops:

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Re: Worrying "crack" heard when closing window

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

A guess would be that the grey clip that is visible in photo 2 has failed, allowing the cable to come loose. You will have to remove the whole unit from the door to replace the clip and refit the cable. Replacing the clip isn't difficult, but refitting the cables can be an interesting experience. There are three nuts holding the frame to the door, and one clip holding it to the window.

I would secure the window in the UP position, and disconnect the cable to the motor. If the motor turns (accidentally pressing the button) without the cables secured to the clip it can cause them to kink, resulting in new cables being required.

This is the type of clip you need. The large item is the slide clip, the smaller item is what secures the windows to the slide clip;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CITROEN-XANTI ... 4aaa26a679" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Worrying "crack" heard when closing window

Post by MikeT »

The motor's already been wound both ways ubfortunately but thanks for the warning. Are there any diagrams to show how and where the parts connect together. I've got Citroen Servicebox but it's not so clear how the parts interact and if the cable's unspooled, how to rewind/reroute it. Maybe it'll be more evident when all is removed but I'm really in the dark.

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Re: Worrying "crack" heard when closing window

Post by CitroJim »

James has the answer Mike.

Get the clip, remove the drive mechanism and re-thread the cable on the drum and all will be good...

The drive mechanism is not hard to remove but it does need a bit of dexterity to remove the clip from the spigot on the side of the plastic piece where it goes through a hole in the glass.

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Re: Worrying "crack" heard when closing window

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

As this is a complete module (from Citroen certainly) it is doubtful Servicebox would show you how to re-build it. It isn't complicated, just time consuming with plenty of swearing potential.

There are actually 2 cables. When you withdraw the mechanism you will need to examine these for any kinks (and if there are any the affected cable must be replaced), and the spool drum for any damage (if it is damaged it will also need to be replaced). If you use kinked cables or a damaged spool they will let go again in short order (probably with the window down, at the entrance to a car park, in the pouring rain!).

You will need some sticky tape, as well as a 10mm socket and a T10 Torx screwdriver (IIRC). With the window in the position shown in the lower photo, reach around the glass and slide the retaining clip of the slide clip spigot, while holding the glass to stop it dropping. Carefully flex the window and frame apart, and lift the window up to its highest position. Tape it there, to give you plenty of room to work (you will need it). Now undo the three nuts holding the frame in place (one is visible in the lower photo, the second is at the top of the slide, and the third is between the two, off to one side). Disconnect the wire to the motor (lift the red clip), and then juggle the frame out of the door.

Now examine the frame. Check for damage to the cables and spool. With any luck they will be OK. Undo the three screws holding the motor to the frame, and withdraw the motor (this will leave the spool roughly in place). Determine how the sliding clip is held on the frame, and if it is possible to fit the cables with the clip in the frame (it may not be possible, or might be possible for one or both to be fitted with it in place). This will determine the fitting order. Remove the damaged slide clip (and bin it), and then take the spool out of the frame. Wind one of the cables onto the spool to about halfway, and then wind the other cable on, until the 'loose' ends are alongside each other in side-by-side grooves, and then tape them there (otherwise they will come undone, probably during a fiddly bit!). Make sure you can remove ALL of the tape once the frame has been completely re-assembled, prior to mounting it back into the door. You must leave the cable ends fully loose, so that you can run them over their guides and into the slide clip; all you want the tape to do is to hold the 'spooled' bits of the cables in their grooves on the spool. You also need to lay them out flat, so that you do not have any kinks occur during refitting.

Looking at the clips on e-bay it would appear that one cable will need to be fitted into it prior to mounting the clip onto the frame, and that this cable is the 'up' cable. I also believe (but I am NOT certain) that it is the sprung tensioner parts that stop said clip coming off the slide. I will explain the refitting procedure based on these assumptions (and I HOPE I am right!).

Present the spool to the frame (make sure you get it the right way around, so that the splines on the spindle will engage the splines on the spool). Take the 'up' cable and fit the end into the mounting point on the slide clip. Now fit the clip onto the frame. Take the 'up' cable, and run it over the guide wheel at the top. Temporarily remove the tape from the spool, and adjust the cable positioning so that the clip is about a third of the way up from the bottom (it will make it easy to re-mount the window to the frame), and then re-tape the spool. Clean any tape residue off the spool at this point (you might not be able to do so once the motor is refitted). Refit the motor (this will hold the spool securely in place), but do NOT remove the tape on the spool yet! Examine the tension arm, spring, and lower frame, and fit them together (difficult to explain it without pictures, which I don't have). Rotate the arm so that it is as close to the slide as possible (and it will be highly sprung), and then secure it in place with strong tape (you have felt how strong the spring is, and it will make the next bit easier). Now you are going to fit the 'down' cable to the slide clip. There are a couple of ways to do this, your preference. Either run the cable over the guide grooves in the tensioner arm, and then fit it into the clip, or vice versa. Now hold the tensioner arm, carefully remove the tape from it, and gently release it (so that the cables are drawn taut). Remove the tape on the spool, and clean off any residue.

Now refit the frame to the door. With luck the slide clip will be visible as it is in the lower photo. Connect up the power cable. At this point, if you have one, an assistant would be useful. Ask them to hold the window in place (one palm on the inside, the other on the outside), and remove the tape holding the window in position. Ask them to now lower the window (and NOT by letting go, otherwise the clip you have spent so long replacing could get damaged!) until it is near the clip, and you can guide it the last bit of the way. Now carefully adjust the window and the frame so that the spigot passes through the hole in the window, and fit the securing clip. Connect up the window switch, and wind the window all the way down. Now wind it back up. As the motor had been disconnected it will need to 'learn' the travel ends, so it will only go up 1 inch at a time. Keep pressing the 'up' button until the window has travelled back up fully. All being well, all you should now need to do is to refit the plastic sheeting and the door card.

Fingers crossed, and happy spannering!
Last edited by Hell Razor5543 on 14 Nov 2014, 22:34, edited 3 times in total.

Hell Razor5543
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Re: Worrying "crack" heard when closing window

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

If the cables and/or spool are damaged you will need this kit;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CITROEN-XANTI ... 4ab932303d" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

MikeT
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Re: Worrying "crack" heard when closing window

Post by MikeT »

Thanks Ted, Jim, James and Mike. Plenty of helpful advice and links to parts. If the weather's amicable tomorrow, should have the unit out and see what's what.

Very kind of you James to write such a long explanation for me, I'm sure it'll be fully appreciated tomorrow when I have parts in hand. Getting spares may take a while longer.

Joking aside, I did actually have a (Ford) rear window fail to close once, just as it began to rain heavy as I pulled into a Lyme Regis car park on a day out. Spent the crucial hour hacking/bodging it closed (missed the tide for fossil hunting) and eventually got home remembering I'd forgot about the rear window (kiddy-proof) cut-out switch which must've been accidentally activated just after the window was wound down.
:oops: :roll: :rofl2: #-o :evil:

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Re: Worrying "crack" heard when closing window

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

You are welcome, Mike. I hope I got it right, as my memory on this is going back over 3 years.

I am not sure about greasing the mechanism. You must make sure to get any tape residue off the mechanism (you do not want to give it an excuse to fail in the future), but I do not know what, if any, grease is suitable for this mechanism. If I had to use any, I would use Vaseline.

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Re: Worrying "crack" heard when closing window

Post by MikeT »

Well I've fallen at the first hurdle. While "clips" abound, I assume it's the wire spring clip I should rotate 45 degrees and remove? It doesn't want to budge and as it's flush against and behind the glass there's no way to apply any meaninful force (my fingernail's not up to the job). What am I missing?

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Re: Worrying "crack" heard when closing window

Post by electronmirror »

You are on the right line Mike. The first time I did this job I used a small screwdriver and pulled the spring wire retainer downward, it takes some force and is quite nerve racking because of the proximity of the glass.

The second time I did this job I knew that it wasn't necessary to pull this spring wire retaining clip out of the rubber grommet. I used a wooden spatula between the glass and the sliding plastic clip and levered it off the pillar of the sliding clip. Again it's a bit nerve racking but will produce the desired result.

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Re: Worrying "crack" heard when closing window

Post by MikeT »

Yes, you guessed me right Ted, probably too conservative in using brute force. I like the spatula leverage idea though. What makes me most nervous is the 45 degree rotation - in respect to what exactly, true vertical or 45 degrees off the running bar (which is not truly vertical)? If this is out of true 45 degree alignment (and by how much), will it break something if the spring clip is forced off?

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Re: Worrying "crack" heard when closing window

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

Unless you are incredibly unlucky (and break the glass) the only thing you could break is the slide clip, and as this has already broken (necessitating this post) that is not a problem.