1.6 Hdi / DV4 / DV6 turbo feed modification.

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Re: 1.6 Hdi / DV4 / DV6 turbo feed modification.

Post by Mandrake »

Sometimes its better to just cut your losses and walk away...
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Re: 1.6 Hdi / DV4 / DV6 turbo feed modification.

Post by RichardW »

Having now been through a turbo replacement and 7k miles later low oil pressure warning, my thoughts are that the oil should be changed every 5k, and the oil filter should be examined at each oil change - if it shows signs of being gritty / having particles on it, then the sump should be dropped and the oil pick up cleaned - if necessary at every oil change :roll: I think this is what our C4 Picasso is going to go on now (if the engine is OK after the low pressure 'event' [-o< ). I'm hopeful that removal will exceed generation rate, and that the sump off can be reduced to every 2nd or even 3rd oil change, but we'll see.

If buying a 1.6 HDi, then insist on full MD history (which should hopefully give the correct oil used) and check for any injector blowby - walk away from anything not showing these attributes. If you do buy one, remove the turbo oil feed filter, as this is a lot finer than the sump strainer, and then put it on 5-7k oil changes, examining the filter as you go. I suspect that if I had not removed the filter on ours, the replacement turbo would have lasted a lot less than 7k miles - I am hopeful that as there was no untoward noise from it or loss of power, the turbo is still OK....
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Re: 1.6 Hdi / DV4 / DV6 turbo feed modification.

Post by Peter.N. »

I had considered a 1.6 as a future replacement because apart from the self destructing turbo's they seem to be a good engine. I think fitting an oil pressure gauge could be a good move, 'T' in to the turbo feed?

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Re: 1.6 Hdi / DV4 / DV6 turbo feed modification.

Post by demag »

Reading so many horror stories (including mine) I wouldn't consider another 1.6hdi. I think to do any good with them the turbo oil feed filter should be removed and the egr blanked off, run 5-6k oil and filter changes, then there's the injector blow by.....

Is it possible to blank the egr without throwing a warning light? Apparently the Siemens ecu doesn't like it. The bloke who designed the egr wants one inserting side ways! 8-) Yes let's take some of the dirty sooty gritty polluted exhaust fumes and pump it back through the engine. Great idea.
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Re: 1.6 Hdi / DV4 / DV6 turbo feed modification.

Post by RichardW »

More info on this.... ours has destroyed (and I mean DESTROYED!) its vac pump. I am wondering if the vac pump is the source of the problem. It's easy to remove, just 2 bolts (one of which is extended and has the ball joint on the end for the air pipe. Check the inlet filter, if it's mucky, consider opening the pump and cleaning it out inside (no idea what this will be like, as mine was just full of bits that used to be a vacuum pump!).
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Re: 1.6 Hdi / DV4 / DV6 turbo feed modification.

Post by Northern_Mike »

demag wrote:The bloke who designed the egr wants one inserting side ways! 8-) Yes let's take some of the dirty sooty gritty polluted exhaust fumes and pump it back through the engine. Great idea.
Oh, I don't know, EGR has been on diesel cars for about 20 years hasn't it, at least, and longer on bigger vehicles? It's only recently it seems to have become a problem with modern engines.
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Re: 1.6 Hdi / DV4 / DV6 turbo feed modification.

Post by Peter.N. »

At least partly because of the long oil change intervals.

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Re: 1.6 Hdi / DV4 / DV6 turbo feed modification.

Post by DickieG »

One possible reason for 1.6 HDi's having this problem with the turbo filter getting blocked is that when the oil is drained using the traditional method of removing the sump plug then a fair old puddle of sludgy oil will be left behind in the sump due to the shape of the sump as the sump plug is recessed, I recall reading a Citroen document stating that with this engine it's imperative that the oil is sucked out via the dip stick tube in order to avoid this problem.
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Post by demag »

Yeah can see the stealer going to that much trouble. They'll do the same as everyone else leave the drain plug out while they change the filter. They're on the clock they haven't got time to mess about.
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Re: 1.6 Hdi / DV4 / DV6 turbo feed modification.

Post by Mandrake »

I would have thought a proper suction machine would be quicker, easier and cleaner than draining by the sump plug.

Pull the dipstick out, poke the hose into the dipstick tube, press a button on the machine and a few minutes later the oil is all in a waste container with no spillage or pouring oil between tray and waste container. I'd sure prefer that method if I had the machine! :lol:
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Re: 1.6 Hdi / DV4 / DV6 turbo feed modification.

Post by DickieG »

Mandrake wrote:I would have thought a proper suction machine would be quicker, easier and cleaner than draining by the sump plug.

Pull the dipstick out, poke the hose into the dipstick tube, press a button on the machine and a few minutes later the oil is all in a waste container with no spillage or pouring oil between tray and waste container. I'd sure prefer that method if I had the machine! :lol:
Exactly as you say Simon, far quicker and less mess, I bought a suction pump a few months ago and know what method I prefer using plus as Citroen state using a suction pump removes more oil than removing the sump plug method which I've personally tested and can confirm as fact.
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Re: 1.6 Hdi / DV4 / DV6 turbo feed modification.

Post by RichardW »

AFAIK Dickie the Citroen advice is NOT to use a suction pump on these....(eg here, but I suppose usual caveats apply to stuff found on the web! The sludge thing is a bit misleading anyway. Having had the sump off (twice :roll: ) I can assure you there is no 'sludge' in the bottom of the sump - it's just oily. What blocks the strainer is hard bits of something - which I am leaning towards the vac pump being the source of (see my thoughts above). It may be that poor oil change / injector blow by starts it off and starves the vac pump, but then my guess is that vac pump slowly destroying itself is the cause of the exponential rise in the particles in the oil.

At least I took the filter out of the turbo feed, so all I got was low oil pressure (and wrecked vac pump!) after 7k miles, rather than needing a(nother) new turbo after 3k =D>

If it blocks again, it will getting the Lighty treatment, as per my other thread, eg removal of the strainer in the sump. I will probably also clean the filter in the vac pump each time I do an air filter change.
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Re: 1.6 Hdi / DV4 / DV6 turbo feed modification.

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

When I had a company Peugeot Partner van the service guy used to jack up the nearside so that the wheel was very high off the ground (it looked like it might fall over!) to improve the flow of the oil out of the sump plug.
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Re: 1.6 Hdi / DV4 / DV6 turbo feed modification.

Post by DickieG »

RichardW wrote:AFAIK Dickie the Citroen advice is NOT to use a suction pump on these....(eg here, but I suppose usual caveats apply to stuff found on the web! The sludge thing is a bit misleading anyway.
Indeed, it'd be interesting to find the official line taken by Citroen on draining the oil from these engines as due to the shape of the sump by using the drain plug method you leave a fair amount of oil in the sump, all the documents I can find ATM on the web are similar to the link you have posted but official Citroen service documents have Citroen logo's and reference numbers which leads me to be rather suspicious of the advice offered in these documents. They look like a crib sheet that's been typed by someone rather than a photocopy of an official Citroen document.

Another thing that arouses my suspicions about the document you mention is that if removing the sump plug is the recommended method, why did Citroen weld a plate onto the sump that partially obscures access to the sump bolt and why did they recess the bolt into the sump? Me thinks that somethings not quite right here :?

Re the sludge thing, a year or so ago I removed the sump on one of these engine in a C3 Picasso at around 50k miles (sump gasket/mastic was leaking) and discovered what I would describe as a layer of slimy oil on the base of the pan, I can't recall any carbon particles but it certainly wasn't ideal.
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Re: 1.6 Hdi / DV4 / DV6 turbo feed modification.

Post by Bob L'eponge »

demag wrote: Is it possible to blank the egr without throwing a warning light? Apparently the Siemens ecu doesn't like it. The bloke who designed the egr wants one inserting side ways! 8-) Yes let's take some of the dirty sooty gritty polluted exhaust fumes and pump it back through the engine. Great idea.
Yup, it is a good idea in that it vastly reduces the amount of nitrogen dioxide that a diesel engine produces, thanks to the fact that a diesel effective runs on an 'open throttle' all of the time, and so with an excess of oxygen. Of course the EGR system is not the complete answer, which is why the latest generation diesels also have a Adblue system to further reduce NO2 levels.
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