1.6 Hdi / DV4 / DV6 turbo feed modification.

[Bob L'eponge]

Injector blow by

But is this any different for the 1.6 Hdi than it is for any other diesel unit?

very small sump capacity

The capacity is given as being 3.75 litres, but if you fill it up to the maximum marking on the dipstick it takes 4.5 litres, which isn't really that much different to most units.

EGR valve

This one came up recently, and the agreed consensus was that the EGR valve is not responsible for putting carbon particles into the oil, even if some find that it can clog up the inlet ports.

long service intervals.

Use the right oil and the motor will probably survive on the recommended intervals. On the other hand, if you use a lower grade oil, or extend the change interval.... That said it is probably wise to reduce the service interval on this motor.

[uncle buck]

The standard oil filter is a full flow filter, I believe it will remove particles down to about 30 microns so some will get through.

But the 'strainer' in the turbo oil feed banjo is just a wire mesh, so it won't stop anything that has already got past the oil filter.

Obviously we know that ....I was answering Pete.N's question as to how carbon can get past the oil filter. The wire mesh in the banjo union wasn't part of this conversation!

If your going to quote people make sure you read & try to understand what they're talking about prior to quoting them please!

[uncle buck]

A sump modification on this engine would be a good idea....a drain hole that was bigger and not recessed up into the sump so you could get all of the old oil out would go a long way in helping this engine out in my opinion.

The boss that holds the sump plug has a hole drilled though it so all the oil can escape - assuming that it doesn't become blocked of course.

Yeah you have told me about the hole drilled through the boss before, but even if the hole is not blocked and works as it should you are still not going to get all of the old oil out....you will still have oil in the sump to the height of the recess !



Cheers.

[Hell Razor5543]

Well, I have just let my employers know about this, as I know we use vans with this engine (Peugeot Partners), so that they can pass the info onto the leasing company.

[Stickyfinger]

With my old tuned VW hill climb cars (AC flat 4's), the practice was to 1/3rd fill the sump with paraffin to dissolve all the "cooked" oil.....we filled via the sump plug and an inverted 2lt coke bottle ....it flushed it well.
[copied from the Hillman Imp HTune/LtWght boys]

|Could this work on this sump design ?

[addo]

It is a noted design flaw of the 1.6, that injector hold down fasteners come loose. More so than (par example) the 2.0 HDi.

[Bob L'eponge]

Perhaps people get rather too paranoid about the 1.6 Hdi unit. After all, it is one of the most commonly used diesel unit in the world and there must be millions in use, most of which don't blow up!

I would not be surprised if the failure rate for these units is not that different from many others that no one seems to think have any issues. It could all be largely a matter of perception. This tendency applies to cars in general. For example, if a French or Italian car goes wrong the first thing many people will think is 'Ah, what do you expect? That just proves what a load of rubbish they are / what dodgy electrics they have etc. etc'. On the other hand if, say, a Volkswagen goes wrong the first thing that many people will think is 'That's unusual, Volkswagens are very reliable so that must have been a one-off'. The underlying failure rate might be pretty much the same, and a company's reputation for reliability built on a vehicle that the company made 50 years ago, but such facts, even if pointed out, won't do much to change what people feel they already 'know'.

Try pointing out that most manufacturers these days just assemble cars from parts made by the same manufacturers as supply bits for their favourite BWM or whatever, and many will refuse to believe it. For example, if have seen people seriously arguing that companies such as Sachs and Bosch make good bits for BMW, but sell rubbish ones to Citroen, Fiat or whoever!

[Bob L'eponge]

I was answering Pete.N's question as to how carbon can get past the oil filter. The wire mesh in the banjo union wasn't part of this conversation!

But that strainer is the central topic of this thread, and we were talking about the strainer being there to catch carbon particles (and possibly being blocked by them), and Pete.n did refer to 'the' carbon... Perhaps you should have been clearer/ expanded the point you were making.

[Bob L'eponge]

It is a noted design flaw of the 1.6, that injector hold down fasteners come loose. More so than (par example) the 2.0 HDi.

True. Thankfully it is just a 2 minute job to check their torque.

[Peter.N.]

I know there are a lot of 1.6Hdi's out there so that's going to affect the problem numbers but have a look on Honest John's forum under 'Ford Focus TDCI turbo failure' or similar, the last time I looked there were around 250 posts, I have never seen a topic with so much interest. There don't seem to be an abnormal amount of posts on any other engine.

Peter

[uncle buck]

I was answering Pete.N's question as to how carbon can get past the oil filter. The wire mesh in the banjo union wasn't part of this conversation!

But that strainer is the central topic of this thread, and we were talking about the strainer being there to catch carbon particles (and possibly being blocked by them), and Pete.n did refer to 'the' carbon... Perhaps you should have been clearer/ expanded the point you were making.

Bob,
I didn't need to be any clearer as I'm sure Peter understood what I meant, just as I understood what he meant even though neither of us used the exact same terminology every time....that's how things work.

I think you would do well to remember this is a forum and not a court of Law where every word has to be recorded verbatim.

I'm not sure if you are trying to wind me up or what because you done the exact same thing to me the last time we posted together on the forum in the thread " Trying To Avoid 1.6HDI Turbo Failure"...you kept on quoting me and picking fault with everything I said....and now you're doing it again.

You really are annoying with your constant quoting of people.....you pedantic man.

Post anything you like now ...I'm sure anyone who reads through this thread or indeed the other I pointed out will see what I mean.

I make no apology for the tone of this post towards you.

[Hell Razor5543]

OK, let me see if I have got this right.

If you don't use the correct oil, at the correct intervals, the crud build up will block the turbo filter, which will then starve the turbo of oil, so it will then seize up and fail. If you remove the original filter, and (again) don't use the right oil, etc., then the crud will get into the turbo, and wedge it, causing it to fail. PSA are aware of the problem, so have produced an improved banjo bolt (with integral oil filter) that should overcome this problem (as well as a very specific service guide).

So, if you use the correct grade of oil, and service the engine at the recommended intervals (at the very least, more often would be better), you should not have a problem. Replacing the banjo bolt would improve the oil/crud situation, thereby reducing the risk of a turbo failure even more.

[Northern_Mike]

Yes, in a nutshell (or case in this thread? )

It goes like this - look after your car using the service schedule you should, and the correct oil, and it'll be fine. Don't, and it won't.

It's not that hard to work out is it?

The problems come when the main dealers put whatever oil is in their tanked system in the workshop in, which isn't the right stuff. Dealers don't use or sell the correct stuff FFS.

[uncle buck]

@ Stickyfinger,

Yeah I can remember the Paraffin flush method I wouldn't advise using it with this sump design though because of the upward recess, you won't get it all out so the remainder will thin down the new oil !



Cheers.

[Bob L'eponge]

if you use the correct grade of oil, and service the engine at the recommended intervals (at the very least, more often would be better), you should not have a problem. Replacing the banjo bolt would improve the oil/crud situation, thereby reducing the risk of a turbo failure even more.

I would say this is right. Most of the discussion of the supposed issues with this motor all tend to refer at some point to a report done by Api replacement turbos that featured a unit that had been given just one oil change in 60,000 miles (that is two fills including that done in the factory) and was probably run on the semi-synth oil that was originally specified for this motor. I feel that this whole issue is likely to be the combination of 2 factors. One, this motor, like many other modern high performance units that operate at higher temperatures, is less tolerant of neglect that older units. Two, the internet has a tendency to create 'memes' that take on a life of their own.

Change the oil regularly using fully synthetic oil and and periodically check the tightness of the injector mounting bolts and you will vastly reduce the chances of any issues arising.