Brake Pedal Kick Back

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Gregg1100
Posts: 601
Joined: 01 Jul 2001, 23:37

Re: Brake Pedal Kick Back

Post by Gregg1100 »

Local stealers still haven't got me any rear caliper seals-till I get those, I am stuck, and losing interest.
Was last Thur when they were supposed to arrive, now this Wed----possibly ?????

citronut
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Re: Brake Pedal Kick Back

Post by citronut »

i would give this company a call rather that the dealer,

they sourced me Visa front caliper seal's when no one else could

and they gave me a call back outside business hours to inform me how the order was coming along

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Gregg1100
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Re: Brake Pedal Kick Back

Post by Gregg1100 »

What company is that, Malcolm lol ??. No link came up or word going blue when running mouse pointer all over the message. Thanks for quick reply.
Lookers in Newport is a waste of time--parts dept take an age to answer the phone, if they actually do, then they say they can't get to the phone, and will ring you back- which they don't. 1/10 for effort. 0/10 for service and customer satisfaction.

citronut
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Re: Brake Pedal Kick Back

Post by citronut »

whoooops
another senior moment
try this Gregg

http://www.biggred.co.uk/index.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Gregg1100
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Re: Brake Pedal Kick Back

Post by Gregg1100 »

Still no seals---now they say Mon 20th. Loathe to reuse old seals really, but if not here by Monday, it (they) may do another stint in the caliper. :( :shock:

citronut
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Re: Brake Pedal Kick Back

Post by citronut »

Gregg
if its just the seal between the two halves of the rear calipers i nearly always re/use this with no prob at all

Hell Razor5543
NOT Alistair or Simon
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Re: Brake Pedal Kick Back

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

I would agree with Citronut about the seals. I have re-used them without any problems. Just make sure that the seals and surfaces are spotlessly clean.

However, if you still want to replace the seals, this company does a calliper refurb kit. You just have to make sure you get the right sizes;

http://www.brakepartssuperstore.org.uk/ ... d5520.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Gregg1100
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Re: Brake Pedal Kick Back

Post by Gregg1100 »

Thanks all for replies. I have lots of new round rubber O rings here, but waiting on square section ones. I think the old one's will be doing another stint. When the new ones turn up, I will keep them for "IF" they leak. :-D
I need to get the car back on the road---to either keep or sell. Not doing it any good keeping it in the garden---can't even grow a new one. :mrgreen:

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Gregg1100
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Re: Brake Pedal Kick Back

Post by Gregg1100 »

Before;

Image

After;
Image

Both sides- pads seized solid, pad pins seized. Disc cover n/s top bolt sheared. Pad front cover plates rusted away. O/s top caliper bolt I thought was about to shear, but with impact from windy gun- reverse forward, reverse forward etc, and it came out. Phew !!
Cleared out all the backplate securing bolt hole threads with 6mm tap. Being knackered stopped play. :mrgreen:

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Gregg1100
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Re: Brake Pedal Kick Back

Post by Gregg1100 »

Just got to get the pad covers and springs from Cit stealer, bleed the anchors. And buy a 1cwt bag or 2 of sand or chippings to go in boot. :mrgreen:

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Gregg1100
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Re: Brake Pedal Kick Back

Post by Gregg1100 »

Got the anti rattle springs on and pad covers. Ready for bleeding. Trouble is, brake pedal is still rock solid, with just a hint of kickback. The pads have not moved up against the discs, even with a brake bleeder valve open, or closed.

Any ideas as to what is still wrong, please????

I know the accumulator sphere wants changing soon, but it gets car up and down ok. Back and front. That says to me that the height levellers are ok. The rear anti-sink sphere has not been changed in the 5 years that I have had the car- all other spheres have been.[/color]

G4EIY
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Joined: 04 Jun 2003, 18:20

Re: Brake Pedal Kick Back

Post by G4EIY »

Hi,

This may help, works on a BX.

Did you:

Load the rear suspension.
Fit long clear tube from bleed valve to lhm tank.
Engine running.
Open bleed valve.
Operate brake pedal.
Wait till all bubbles have stopped.
Tighten bleed valve.
Remove tube.
Repeat other side.

Good luck

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Gregg1100
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Re: Brake Pedal Kick Back

Post by Gregg1100 »

Loaded suspension, --up high---bleed nipple wide open---pedal still rock hard when pressed--no fluid coming from nipple. Really getting sucked off now.
I don't subscribe to the action of pumping aerated fluid back into a reservoir which supplies fluid to a system which you are trying to remove air from.
Noticed today;

power steering making more noise than normal from lock to lock

when you press brake pedal really hard, it sounds as if doseur valve is exhausting --like a truck when pressing the brake pedal, only without the air escaping sound

the car is up on stands- noticed just now that the front is going up and down, but not the back---whether all the weight has to be on ground for it to work, I don't know

the fluid height indicator in reservoir isn't working--never has in the 5 years I have had the car. My son's Xantia 2 HDi110 level indicator never worked either.

The lhm oil seems thick- according to the little bit that dribbled out when trying to bleed brakes earlier today.
I really don't need this grief

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Mandrake
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Re: Brake Pedal Kick Back

Post by Mandrake »

Gregg1100 wrote:Loaded suspension, --up high---bleed nipple wide open---pedal still rock hard when pressed--no fluid coming from nipple. Really getting sucked off now.
I don't subscribe to the action of pumping aerated fluid back into a reservoir which supplies fluid to a system which you are trying to remove air from.

It's normal for a small quantity of air bubbles to return to the tank via the normal return lines - there is a fine mesh filter between the return outlet and the pump inlet in the tank that traps 99% of the bubbles and unless it gets completely overwhelmed by them (which can happen, for example if you've had the hose off to the pump and then refitted it) they can't get through to the pump.

Nothing wrong with running a hose from the bleed nipple back to the tank, I don't do it simply because I don't want a 4 metre long hose full of oil to deal with afterwards... :roll: I just use a clean 1 litre glass soda bottle and half a metre of clear hose. I've never had to bleed more than half a litre to get all the air bubbles, even with the rear brakes. When I'm done if the oil is nice and clean I pour it back in the tank, if not I dispose of it and top up with new oil.
when you press brake pedal really hard, it sounds as if doseur valve is exhausting --like a truck when pressing the brake pedal, only without the air escaping sound

If you press the pedal down hard then release it quickly it will "slurp" quite loudly. Perfectly normal behaviour and nothing to worry about.
the car is up on stands- noticed just now that the front is going up and down, but not the back---whether all the weight has to be on ground for it to work, I don't know

There's your problem right there. In theory it should be sufficient to put the manual height lever on maximum to bleed the rear brakes regardless of whether there is a load on the suspension or not. In practice unless the height corrector linkages are all adjusted correctly, well lubricated and working perfectly the height corrector will typically close under these conditions - a closed height corrector and no weight pressing down on the rear suspension often means no pressure to operate the rear brakes!

My Xantia V6 does exactly the same - its impossible to bleed the rear brakes with the wheels off the ground, although on my previous Xantia I could.

Here's my "guaranteed to work" method for bleeding rear brakes on stubborn Citroen's :twisted:

1) Starting with the car on the ground, raise the car to full height with the manual height control lever and let it run for about 3 minutes to pressurise and lift as much as possible. Leave the engine running for the remainder of the process.

2) Loosen the wheel nuts on one rear wheel.

3) Put a floor jack under the rear suspension chassis on that side - I put it under one of the two large bolts in front of and inwards from the rear wheel, this is a structurally very strong area. You could use the wheel changing jack on the normal wheel change jacking point if you want but its a lot more work with a screw thread jack!

4) Jack up the jack until the wheel clears the ground and remove the wheel completely.

5) Here's the trick - now LOWER the jack a good few inches (4-5 inches) so that the rear suspension on the other side starts to go down, but not so low that the hub on this side touches the ground. (obviously :lol: ) By doing this, leaving the height lever at maximum and leaving the engine running you can guarantee that the rear suspension will be under pressure because the opposite rear wheel is supporting some of the weight of the car! The jack is just helping to balance the car, not holding all the weight. (It will hold all the weight by itself however if you jack it up too high and don't lower it as described) If the jack just drops away and isn't supporting the car at all, jack it back up until it just helps to balance the car but isn't carrying much weight.

6) Bleed the brake on this corner. The way I like to do it is this - find a length of wood so that you can wedge the brake pedal down hard with some wood between the front of the seat and the pedal. If you have electric seats its easy to do - I put a bit of 2x4 between the seat and the pedal, then by adjusting the seat forward I can push the pedal down and keep it down. :twisted: I then pop the spanner and hose on the nipple, loosen it to bleed, when finished nip it up, with the pedal being down the whole time and engine running the whole time.

If you release the pedal before nipping the bleed nipple up it will draw some air back in through the nipple! Closing the nipple with the pedal still down is the only way to avoid this.

7) Jack your jack up again until you can get the wheel on, lower it down, tighten the wheel nuts then repeat on the opposite side. I just leave the brake pedal wedged down in between doing the left and right and remove it at the very end before lowing the car back to normal.

the fluid height indicator in reservoir isn't working--never has in the 5 years I have had the car. My son's Xantia 2 HDi110 level indicator never worked either.

The indicators don't fail, if the orange disc is jammed at the top all the time either the tank is over filled, its not being checked on maximum suspension height, or one of the height correctors is not adjusted properly so that its not fully filling the spheres with oil in the maximum height position. (quite possible given your difficulty bleeding the rear brakes)

It's important to note (sorry if this is teaching you to suck eggs!) that the measurement must be taken when the suspension is fully up, (after idling for at least 3-4 minutes height fully up) which causes the oil level in the tank to be the LOWEST that it normally is. (right near the bottom actually) The length of the stalk for the float is calibrated for this. With the suspension at normal height and a "normal" (higher) level of oil in the tank the orange top hat will be jammed at the top all the time, this is normal at normal ride height.
The lhm oil seems thick- according to the little bit that dribbled out when trying to bleed brakes earlier today.
I really don't need this grief
What colour is it ?

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Gregg1100
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Re: Brake Pedal Kick Back

Post by Gregg1100 »

Thanks for replies.
Simon;
The lhm coming from bleed nipple is green.
I will have a go at what you said tomorrow. Can't do anymore today cos I am knackered. Bloody angina really slows you down.
I will siphon some lhm from the tank, just to see if the indicator does move at all.
Would it be better to change the accumulator sphere BEFORE I start trying to bleed the brakes again??
Before I took the car off the road nearly 2 years ago, I had 3 instances of having a hard brake pedal, and no stopping action--a quick up and down on the pedal resulted in full braking again. ABS light is working correctly---self test and off.

Obviously I want the anchors working as they should, so need to sort out these faults before car goes back on the road.
Thanks,
Greg