2005 Citroen Berlingo 1.9 DW8 Fuel Pump Issue

[deanbayley]

Hi guys,

I have recently bought my neighbours Berlingo of him who timing belt snapped 8 months ago, after stripping it down it turns out the cam had snapped into 3 and took 2 of the 3 caps with it..

I've fitted a new belt kit, water pump, head (secondhand), bolts, head gasket, head set, fuel filter, oil change, air filter, glow plugs, battery etc as part of the rebuild and when I eventually got it started using copious amounts of easy start she ran spot on..

Left it to warm up for 20 mins with an engine flush in and drained the oil and changed the filter, fresh oil in and started her up for another 20 mins and all seemed well..

Had other work to be getting on with so put it in the car park, several hours later tried to start but couldnt..

Pushed it in and next day I took the intake manifold off, glow plugs out (so I didn't burn starter out), took all 4 nuts of the tops of the injectors and cranked for about 30 seconds.. No fuel what so ever..

From reading these forums that seems to suggest the fuel shut of solenoid is dodgy..

The question is what type of Durite solenoid replaces it?

Or can anyone suggest anything else, the fuel filter is full and there is fuel coming through the return from the pump when cranking..

Thanks in advance.

Dean.

[deanbayley]

Just noticed aswell there is a ticking noise which sounds like a chattering solenoid..

http://www.automagic.co.uk/upload/ticking.wav

Sound above

[spider]

Lucas pump ? (almost 99% of DW8's are)

Do you still have the module over the pump ?

They don't usually have a conventional solenoid under the cover, they have a strange 'tube' with the electronics within in some cases.

There is a suitable standard solenoid, although the usual replacements either do not cut the fuel or do not let it pass. I'll try to find the thread in a bit, it was in the Peugeot section for a 206.

EDIT... The ticking could be the advance solenoid in the pump, mine does this *if* you stop it via the stop arm not via the ignition switch.

[deanbayley]

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... hp?t=30280

Thats the original topic but it doesn't say what the model number was or where it was from...

I'm not sure who makes the pump, it says Lucas on the sensor

Here it is:

Dean.

[spider]

That's a Lucas pump.

I see what you mean about the solenoid part number... Worth checking its not a conventional one under that though.

[deanbayley]

I'll grind the top of the cover off in the morning..

So do you just cut the 2 or 3 wires, unscrew the solenoid and remove the plunger and reinstall?

I'll mark the wires for re connection just in case..

Thanks!
Dean.

[deanbayley]

There are 3 plugs connecting to the fuel pump, according to Auto Data they comprise the Fuel lever position sensor (B171), the Fuel shut off solenoid (Y12) and the Injection pump advance solenoid (Y131), as far as i can tell the bottom plug is the advance solenoid, the middle is the shut off solenoid and the top is the position sensor..



After disconnecting the bottom plug the ticking noise disappears, in a silent workshop i had one of the lads cycling the ignition on and off and my head right next to the pump, there was no click from the solenoid unless it is silent which i cant imagine, i've had the Solus Ultra on it and it doesn't report an immobiliser fault, the only codes are P0380 which is because the glow plugs are disconnected and P1106 because the advance solenoid is disconnected.

Before i start chopping at the pump can anyone suggest anything that would suddenly stop this from working?

Dean.

[spider]

Off hand no, the buzzing as I put above mine does that but *only* if I stop the engine via the stop lever. It does not buzz that I've noted at any other time.

The wiring is correct as is the description of what they are for. The four pin plug may have three or four wires, basically a switched ignition 12v feed and the other two go to the control / transponder as a 'signal'

It is difficult to know what to suggest if you did not want to take the cover off, that would be what I would do if it was mine, at least with the four pin wire you should have a 12v ignition feed and if nothing else you need to verify the solenoid is working, you could refit said solenoid without its internals which at least that way it will run as it won't be able to cut the fuel without a plunger / spring.

The only other thing I can think of is a very bad air leak causing no fuel to be present but you say you have fuel out of the return but nothing at the injectors correct ? , that can really only be the solenoid or a problem internally in the pump.

Hopefully others may chime in with their thoughts too.

[deanbayley]

Hi Andy, i'll cut the cover off now...

[deanbayley]

not what i was expecting to see:



Looks like all the armour needs to come off...

D.

[spider]

That's the annoying 'tube thing' one, the electronics are inside that itself, you cannot get the solenoid out, other ones have a module alongside and a conventional (ish) solenoid.

I don't have a picture to hand, although somewhere there is one.

Care must be taken to not permit *any* swarf to get anywhere it should not.

[deanbayley]

So what now?

[spider]

The armour needs to come off you can unscrew it at least and then if not possible to remove its plunger fit another solenoid, even one that does not cut the fuel off would temporarily do*, the idea being to allow that to be out of the equation as the 'problem'

*Obtain a couple from a scrapyard from Lucas equipped units. Early to mid 90's will be "unprotected" in most cases.

[deanbayley]

What an absolute C*** of a job!!!

Just when you think you have the last bit of amour out of the way and you are absolutely sure it'll definitely slide out now, it go HAHA!! i don't think so!

Don't cut into where the cross is, its very thin there and the solenoid sticks out.

This is how i did it:



This is what is reveals:



The solenoid had a cap over it for what reason i don't know, the sticker that was on there was:



I've had the pump in the vice and got some big eagle beaks on and tried to undo and its in there solid!

So what now, cut into the solenoid?

Here is the dataplate on the pump:



Thanks for your help so far!

D.

[spider]

The Bosch one with the pin is slightly worse to do if its any consolation.

Ensure you clean all the swarfy bits out of everywhere, you don't want *any* going anywhere near the pump where it could get inside. I emptied a few cans of aerosol brake cleaner and some warm water over mine to ensure it was washed off.

It should just unscrew as far as I know, it can only really be screwed into the head (do not undo the head or it will not go back again) , usually a stop solenoid is not that tight either.

I seem to think a tool would clip into the slots at the top, same as 405/406 ball joints, a pronged socket.

If you're sure you cannot undo it, I'd advise against cutting into it at the moment, simply as you do not want debris getting inside the pump. I'll see if I can find some more information on this particular unit.