Problem needs to be diagnosed please help

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kidd78
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Problem needs to be diagnosed please help

Post by kidd78 » 05 Dec 2018, 19:43

Hi, new to the group. Sorry if this is a long winded question.

Right my wifes C4 Grand Picasso is developed a problem where when driving theres a low rumbling sound which I presume is wheel bearings has gone. Also when the clutch is down at low speeds theres a metal scrapping sounds.

I took it to Citroen first to diagnose the problem but came back clean bill of health + £99 lighter.
2nd garage I took it asking them to check the wheel bearings specifically as the noise seemed to be getting louder (£25). The confirmed it was the near side front, took it in the next day to repair.
Within 10mins got a call saying it wasn't the front it was was the offside rear which was going to cost me extra £100 (£290 for rear bearings) Totally different price from previous day I asked costing for rear and front. Say the least I wasn't happy and called up Citroen for their pricing (fitted £249)

Now took it to my local trusted garage, told them the problem. They gave a fair price
Called back after deep inspection, couldnt find any problems at all with the wheel bearings. They inspected the tyres just in case it was that but again nothing, as they are brand new too.

What my question is, has anyone come across this problem or know what it can be? I'm scratching my head trying to figure out if its something to do with the clutch. As you can read I'm already £124 lighter without a solution yet. Since its a car that carries my young children on long journeys I don't want to risk leaving it to breakdown and rescue to sort it.

Please help, forgive my long intro

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Problem needs to be diagnosed please help

Post by GiveMeABreak » 05 Dec 2018, 19:58

Hi and welcome.

My first thought would be clutch / flywheel, but if you post up your VIN it will help us determine the exact specs of your vehicle.

sparksie
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Re: Problem needs to be diagnosed please help

Post by sparksie » 06 Dec 2018, 03:13

Yup, seconded.
Find a quiet stretch of dual carriageway and drive at the speed that makes the noise loudest.
Dip the clutch and let it tick over, without reducing speed.
Note any change in the noise
Drop it into neutral and let go of the clutch, again noting any change.
Last edited by GiveMeABreak on 06 Dec 2018, 10:14, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited for Safety Reasons

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Problem needs to be diagnosed please help

Post by GiveMeABreak » 06 Dec 2018, 10:17

We really need to get the VIN from the OP Sparksie, because he / she may have the EGS system which rules out some tests.

kidd78
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Re: Problem needs to be diagnosed please help

Post by kidd78 » 07 Dec 2018, 00:04

Vin number is VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff].

I try the long road drop the clutch diagnosis tomorrow. Funny thing is the metal scrapping sounds has not appeared for a few days now.

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Problem needs to be diagnosed please help

Post by GiveMeABreak » 07 Dec 2018, 01:25

Ok so manual 6 speed - no EGS.
C4 PICASSO / C4 SPACETOURER (B78) ESTATE - LEISURE 1.6 HDI 115 (DV6C) STT TYPE 6-SPEED MANUAL GEARBOX

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white exec
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Re: Problem needs to be diagnosed please help

Post by white exec » 07 Dec 2018, 07:52

That's the right test to do - get the car up to speed so you can hear the noise, then let it coast:
- dip the clutch, and see if the noise goes
- drop it onto neutral, clutch up (foot off the clutch) and see if the noise is there.

If noise persists, that would suggest a wheel bearing.
If noise disappears in one of those two tests, it would suggest clutch/flywheel.

Does the noise vary depending whether engine is pulling or on over-run?

Do we have a DMF on this one?

You could also listen to the front wheel bearings by securely jacking up one front wheel at a time, and allowing that wheel to run under power (not too high a speed), and listening for noise. Jack very securely, and chock rear wheels to prevent any vehicle movement; don't venture underneath. (It's a possibility that the car's ABS system will kick up at running one wheel at a time, but worth trying.)

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Stickyfinger
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Re: Problem needs to be diagnosed please help

Post by Stickyfinger » 07 Dec 2018, 09:08

Do these have a "Frip" joint at the front ? They can "rumble" as well.

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Problem needs to be diagnosed please help

Post by GiveMeABreak » 07 Dec 2018, 11:26

white exec wrote:
07 Dec 2018, 07:52
Do we have a DMF on this one?

Yes, DMF on this model.

sparksie
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Re: Problem needs to be diagnosed please help

Post by sparksie » 08 Jan 2019, 03:39

white exec wrote:
07 Dec 2018, 07:52


You could also listen to the front wheel bearings by securely jacking up one front wheel at a time, and allowing that wheel to run under power (not too high a speed), and listening for noise. Jack very securely, and chock rear wheels to prevent any vehicle movement; don't venture underneath. (It's a possibility that the car's ABS system will kick up at running one wheel at a time, but worth trying.)

Although the differential SHOULD make this a safe enough test, I never run under power with only one driven wheel elevated.
Should the diff fail, or the bearing in the elevated corner seize, drive will be transmitted to the other wheel, with predictable results.
Also, never do it solo. Have somebody sitting in the car, with knowledge of how to react if anything goes wrong (clutch, brake AND key!!!) at all times. Remember, you only think you have control of your work environment. If something unexpected happens, I'd prefer to be able to count my missing limbs myself!

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white exec
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Re: Problem needs to be diagnosed please help

Post by white exec » 08 Jan 2019, 08:03

As I said, chock the other wheels, and never venture underneath.

sparksie
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Re: Problem needs to be diagnosed please help

Post by sparksie » 09 Jan 2019, 02:25

No, raise both driven wheels and never venture in front, or underneath, even with chocks in place and safety assistant at the helm.
Also, when leaning over the sides, remember the spinning wheels in front of your knees. You SHOULD be able to stop either wheel easily, BUT you may not! Keep well clear.
Cars can work their way off axle stands over time, due to vibration when you run the engine. Even less predictable, apparently sound concrete floors can fail without warning, causing stands to sink, or tilt, dropping the driven wheels to the ground. And then there are outside factors, such as bystanders kids, pets, even acts of God.
This is really the most unsafe testing I'd ever suggest for a DIYer and should only ever be attempted as a last resort.
Professionals use a ramp to lift all four wheels clear of the ground, with multiple fail-safes to protect them from accidental movement, but we still only do it when all else fails.