My first Activa

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Skull
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Re: My first Activa

Post by Skull » 01 Mar 2019, 16:55

After a run out the suspension fluid return hose was weeping more than normal leaving a small puddle of fluid, it had been weeping previously ^ and I had re-positioned and kept an eye on it but today I found a small tear on the tapered part of the housing so I've ordered a new one for a reasonable £9.99 off ebay

Citroen PART NUMBER: 95050399

I also had a look at the turbo while the car was up in the air after reading somewhere on here that I should be able to see the actuator/arm move approximately 15mm when starting the engine up - mine doesn't move at all even by hand so could that be my problem :?:

I've not got access to Lexia but have had no warning light at all yet just rough running and hesitation on full throttle still gets up to speed but I have to nurse it there :roll:

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Skull
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Re: My first Activa

Post by Skull » 02 Mar 2019, 16:52

Skull wrote:
01 Mar 2019, 16:55


I also had a look at the turbo while the car was up in the air after reading somewhere on here that I should be able to see the actuator/arm move approximately 15mm when starting the engine up - mine doesn't move at all even by hand so could that be my problem :?:



Had my Xantia HDi up in the air and had a look from undeneath at my turbo actuator/arm on start up and it does indeed move a considerable amount maybe even more than 15mm so looks like I've either found another problem or a possible solution .......

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Skull
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Re: My first Activa

Post by Skull » 02 Mar 2019, 22:40

From another thread Turbo.... oh yey
MikeT wrote:
21 Feb 2019, 11:08
madmaxgav wrote:
21 Feb 2019, 09:46
Starting to wonder if a vac pipe or two are the wrong way around or something so the actuator isn't doing a thing.
Easy enough to check - observe the actuator arm when the engine starts. It should retract about 12mm under vacuum.


Got the suspension return pipe delivered in 24 hours so will fit that tomorrow and have a look at the turbo [-o<

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Skull
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Re: My first Activa

Post by Skull » 28 Mar 2019, 16:35

Skull wrote:
01 Mar 2019, 16:55
I also had a look at the turbo while the car was up in the air after reading somewhere on here that I should be able to see the actuator/arm move approximately 15mm when starting the engine up - mine doesn't move at all even by hand so could that be my problem :?:


It does move by hand but requires more effort than I expected :oops:

I've had a play trying to get a vacuum to the actuator including bypassing the vacuum valve with a suitable pipe / removed the vacuum valve and I can hear it clicking and diverting when applying 12v, so that appears to be working. When the engine is running there doesn't seem to be a large vacuum to any of the hoses :?:

Anyone give us a clue :?:

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Skull
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Re: My first Activa

Post by Skull » 23 May 2019, 13:32

Taking a few steps back as it has been a while now trying to get it running right it's been into a Citroen specialist garage but with no success on curing the fueling issue so I'm going to start again ....

To recap
Skull wrote:
21 Oct 2018, 17:23
Played around with the fuel pump as I was suspicious of it operating as I couldn't hear it priming like my HDi does, but wasn't sure if it would make as much noise :?:

I initially tried fuse 9 (10 amp) in the engine bay but that seemed fine I wasn't sure which relay was for the fuel pump so moved onto the fuel pump itself I tried running it directly off the old car battery Pins 2 (white) and 4 (green) but still couldn't hear or feel anything ... Delved deeper and ended up breaking the sealing ring on the fuel tank #-o but on removal it seemed as though the pump was only just in one piece and was tricky to maneuver out, stuck it in a bucket and tried the battery wires again directly to the pump motor .... almost condemned it but then it purred into life :-D so pulled the terminals off and cleaned up the connection, reassembled pump and popped it back loosely in the tank, turned the key and still couldn't hear or feel anything then thought bugger it just give it a go starting .... fired up first time :-D

She runs elation quickly turned to :evil: as I checked around for further leaks .... LHM LEAKS ALL SORTED
So the garage has reported that:

Turbo boost control circuit OK
Intercooler appears OK
Fuel pressure test at all speeds OK
Fuel pressure fluctuates above and below 3 BAR spec is approx 2.7 BAR
Exhaust emissions test shows engine running weak

They have recommended:

To ensure no fuel supply blockages in tank/pump strength & pick-up & filter (new already fitted)
Test and back-flush fuel injectors
Replace Lambda sensor
If possible test/replace Map/Maf sensor which is integral with fuel ECU

So I'm wondering given the fuel pump wasn't running initially and then ran OK prior to re-fitting whether it's worth pulling it out again for another look maybe it's not strong enough :?: How can I test it :?:

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Re: My first Activa

Post by admiral51 » 23 May 2019, 22:24

Just a thought, not knowing the pump itself, but it should have a litre/hr rating. As you say it seemed dead and then sprang into life it could be weak in terms of its flow rate.
Assuming its a lift pump once the engine is running the engine( carb etc ? ) itself will help pull the fuel through so the pressure may be about right but the flow rate a little low.
You say they have tested pressure at all speeds but the flow rate needed for same speeds in different gears/revs will be different ?
If it is not too expensive i would try to replace the fuel pump as previously you said it will get up and go you just need to nurse it to get there.
As for testing it i guess you would need to put in a flow meter between the feed pipe and pump outlet and monitor it somehow if keeping it in the tank, or take it out and use a non flammable liquid like water where you can submerse and secure it and see how long it takes to transfer a set amount but then you would need the specs for the pump, not just its max flow rate.
I have just replaced the lift pump on my Xantia 2.0 Hdi and its max flow rate is 30l/hr so thats close to 7 gallons an hour, if i use that amount in an hour i guess i only have first gear :)

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Re: My first Activa

Post by Skull » 24 May 2019, 09:01

admiral51 Thanks for those thoughts it's along the same lines as mine with the additional thoughts of clearing the fuel lines through just to make sure they aren't obstructed, the old fuel filter had some silt inside but not enough to restrict it. I might try to disconnect at the fuel filter and run the pump off the ignition to get an idea of the flow rate, before taking it back out of the tank for inspection/replacement.

I also had a thought that the pump could be leaking inside the fuel tank from the pick up pipework which is just a thin corrugated plastic tube :?:

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Skull
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Re: My first Activa

Post by Skull » 02 Jun 2019, 15:02

Had a try at running the pump in the tank through the ignition by disconnecting the feed pipe from the fuel filter under the car but only a little spurt came out and after that each time I turned on the ignition there was no more spurts at all so I'm guessing there's some sort of cut out on the circuit :?:

Decided to buy a new pump [Citroen 152577 £258.24 :shock: ] found one advertised on ebay for £57 decided to remove the old one on the day the new one was arriving ...

Banged the locking ring of the fuel tank to remove the pump again, removed the old pump and waited anxiously for TNT delivery ...

...ran to the TNT guy like an old lover reuniting :lol: only for the package to be much smaller than expected :roll: Turns out I'd only ordered the electric motor [VDO PUMP 993 784 022] of the pump for £57 :oops: Trying to arrange a return/replacement pump complete....

Had a play with the old pump (no flow rating marked) whilst I've got it out ran it in a bucket of water to see flow rate as Admiral51 suggested into a bucket - emptied 4 Litres out of the bucket in 1m40s....so over 120 Ltr/hr would seem sufficient (even though there is some internal leakage on the upper join of the pipe).
XANTIA FUEL PUMP.JPG
FUEL PUMP PARTIALLY STRIPPED

The pump strips down OK apart from the green plastic corrugated pipe that appears a push fit but even after warming with a hair dryer seems reluctant to come off, so even if I did use the new motor the pipework would probably need replacing as well but having confirmed the flow rate looks ok on the old pump I'm inclined just to put it all back together (try to slow the internal leak with plastic tie wrap) and move to the next stage of elimination ......

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Re: My first Activa

Post by admiral51 » 02 Jun 2019, 15:48

Sorry things have not quite as expected Skull.
If as you have found the pump is running with a very healthy flow rate when driven directly out of the wiring loom could it be the connector to the pump that is dodgy, the part that is in the loom?
Strange question given i know the limited space and lack of wire length but could you run the pump within the loom in a bucket of water with a recptical bucket having the return feed pipe in, not sure if that makes any sense at all but just thinking of a way to determine if the loom is at fault.
I am guessing that when a certain pressure is recorded in the fuel line/pump sensor it cuts the pump out but again clutching at straws.
Is there a sensor that monitors pressure and could it be faulty, not totally knackered but unable to read as it should and cutting fuel flow/lift pump ?

Sorry just rambling my brain needs a reboot lol

Colin

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Skull
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Re: My first Activa

Post by Skull » 02 Jun 2019, 17:40

Mine's in a mess as well :spineyes:

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Skull
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Re: My first Activa

Post by Skull » 02 Jun 2019, 17:50

I will have a try at that Admiral51 basically running the pump from the wiring loom rather than my spare battery ...just need some longer wires and extra caution with the fuel :bomb: tank open ....

If that all goes well next on the list of suspects would be the fuel regulator I think ....

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Re: My first Activa

Post by admiral51 » 02 Jun 2019, 17:56

Not with fuel i meant with something less combustable :)

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Skull
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Re: My first Activa

Post by Skull » 02 Jun 2019, 19:20

Yes I know what you meant Admiral51 just the danger of making dodgy electrical connections near the open fuel tank (petrol fumes / sparks and all that dodgy stuff) :wink:
Longer wires were for the loom connection going to the pump in a bucket of water away from the open fuel tank .....

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Re: My first Activa

Post by Skull » 04 Jun 2019, 17:26

admiral51 wrote:
02 Jun 2019, 15:48

If as you have found the pump is running with a very healthy flow rate when driven directly out of the wiring loom could it be the connector to the pump that is dodgy, the part that is in the loom?


Re-assembled the pump and tried just connecting the electric plug to check the pump motor is running off the ignition and the motors not running which reminds me of this
Skull wrote:
02 Jun 2019, 15:02
Had a try at running the pump in the tank through the ignition by disconnecting the feed pipe from the fuel filter under the car but only a little spurt came out and after that each time I turned on the ignition there was no more spurts at all so I'm guessing there's some sort of cut out on the circuit :?:
I am presuming the fuel pump should prime when ignition is in position 2 before cranking takes place :?: Same as my HDi which I can hear priming.

So is it possible that the fuel pump hasn't been running at all when installed fully in the car :?:

Would there be enough fuel pressure to start (from engine cranking) and run the engine without the fuel pump running at all :?:

Is this why the engine struggles when accelerating / wont boost because there's not enough fuel to meet that demand :?:

It's been that long ago now (6 months) I can't honestly say that I tested the fuel pump was running when connected to the wiring loom before replacing it in the tank, (I had only ran it off a car battery) it's just that the first time I got the engine to run was after re-fitting the pump the first time, so assumed I'd fixed it.

So only had a quick look at connector fuse (No 9 engine bay/ relays today will delve a bit deeper tomorrow but really want to see it running off the loom before I re-fit it again ..... brain spinning :oops:

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Re: My first Activa

Post by myglaren » 04 Jun 2019, 17:33

While it is extremely unlikely to apply here I just read of a lad who was having trouble with his car cutting out intermittently.
His dad was very competent with car repairs and together they investigated every option but could find no solution.
After months of getting nowhere the father lost his temper with it and pulled the petrol tank off. And there was the problem - a peach stone that randomly blocked the fuel feed depending on movement of the car and dropped out again when the engine stopped and there was no suction to hold it in place.