Tales from beyond the grave AKA Dan & Emma's Black & White Xantiae... & a 206

Tell us your ongoing tales and experiences with your French car here. Post pictures of your car here as well.

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ekjdm14
donor 2017
Posts: 1487
Joined: 19 Jan 2015, 18:42
Location: Congleton
My Cars: '95 Xantia 1.9D automatic - 100k/150+k on replacement engine
'97 Xantia 1.9TD manual - 136k
'02 206 Style 1.4HDi - 102k now and still plodding along
'91 Ford Escort 1.6i Cabriolet - 106k
('96 ZX 1.9TD Elation - 95k sadly missed, '94 XM 2.0i SX estate/auto - 160+k, not missed so much)
x 123

Re: Tales from beyond the grave AKA Dan & Emma's Black & White Xantiae... & a 206

Post by ekjdm14 » 11 Sep 2017, 14:48

Well well well... Moral of today's instalment of Whit'e story is, always but ALWAYS check the basics first of all!

Just been out and twisted the pump towards the head and, like magic, she's cured! :D

Now, I feel both elated and slightly dumb at this point since timing is one of the first checks I should have made. However, with the misfire being fairly distinctly on #2 I was thrown off the scent at the first instance and based my troubleshooting around the fuel/air/compression of that cylinder alone. My only guess is that #2 has the lowest compression of the 4 (although within spec) and this was the first place the issue showed up.

I would appreciate the input of Les (White's previous owner) on the matter, most specifically when he had the cambelt replaced and if he noticed any change at this point. The tension appears fine and it's a Gates belt but my guess at the moment is the belt was replaced with the pump a tooth out (very easy to do in my experience even using pegs) and the problem started there but perhaps went unnoticed for a while. Think there's about 6k miles on the cambelt.

Anyway, I'm off now to let my excitement crossed-joy crossed-embarrassment crossed disbelief subside a while & then reassemble and properly time-up the engine when time allows. AND I can put my compression tester budget to use on some dial gauges.

(P.S. I think in my excitement I said away from the head was advancing the timing in the other post. Anyway, it's obviously the other way round given how readily she now starts and the slight increase in cold-clatter I hear).

TL:DR-: After all this time, the injection timing was just a tooth retarded...
2x
'95 Xantia LX 1.9D(n/a) auto, Black, 100k miles ("new" engine on 150+k)
'97 Xantia Desire 1.9TD manual, White, 136k (new project)
'02 206 Style 1.4HDi, Mercury Grey, 102k miles

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CitroJim
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My Cars: An orange Skoda 120, a pretty blue Pug 207, Sally the white Saxo, a Giant TCR Bike and a Giant TCR Pro Bike.
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Re: Tales from beyond the grave AKA Dan & Emma's Black & White Xantiae... & a 206

Post by CitroJim » 11 Sep 2017, 15:55

That'll be interesting Dan as the XUD is very critical on timing...

I always use pins and quadruple check it by rotating the engine about ten times or more before reinserting the pins for a final check before removing them again and starting up..

Fingers are crossed [-o<
1x
Jim

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ekjdm14
donor 2017
Posts: 1487
Joined: 19 Jan 2015, 18:42
Location: Congleton
My Cars: '95 Xantia 1.9D automatic - 100k/150+k on replacement engine
'97 Xantia 1.9TD manual - 136k
'02 206 Style 1.4HDi - 102k now and still plodding along
'91 Ford Escort 1.6i Cabriolet - 106k
('96 ZX 1.9TD Elation - 95k sadly missed, '94 XM 2.0i SX estate/auto - 160+k, not missed so much)
x 123

Re: Tales from beyond the grave AKA Dan & Emma's Black & White Xantiae... & a 206

Post by ekjdm14 » 11 Sep 2017, 16:18

CitroJim wrote:
11 Sep 2017, 15:55
....XUD is very critical on timing...


And my, how I've learned it today! :rofl2: She didn't sound or start half bad with the timing wherever it was when we got her (apart from the miss of course) but now, having set it roughly by hand, things are so much improved it's like a new engine in half an hour of tinkering! 8-)

I can honestly say this is the most satisfying cringe of embarrassment I've ever felt & now the reassembly can commence in earnest and she may be ready to go for her next MoT before the current one even runs out which, despite the time I've wasted chasing shadows on this, is quicker than I thought things may have gone...
1x
'95 Xantia LX 1.9D(n/a) auto, Black, 100k miles ("new" engine on 150+k)
'97 Xantia Desire 1.9TD manual, White, 136k (new project)
'02 206 Style 1.4HDi, Mercury Grey, 102k miles

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CitroJim
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Posts: 39404
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: North Bucks
My Cars: An orange Skoda 120, a pretty blue Pug 207, Sally the white Saxo, a Giant TCR Bike and a Giant TCR Pro Bike.
x 736

Re: Tales from beyond the grave AKA Dan & Emma's Black & White Xantiae... & a 206

Post by CitroJim » 11 Sep 2017, 16:48

Dan, that's excellent news :D Glad you found it before pulling the engine all to bits =D>
0x
Jim

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ekjdm14
donor 2017
Posts: 1487
Joined: 19 Jan 2015, 18:42
Location: Congleton
My Cars: '95 Xantia 1.9D automatic - 100k/150+k on replacement engine
'97 Xantia 1.9TD manual - 136k
'02 206 Style 1.4HDi - 102k now and still plodding along
'91 Ford Escort 1.6i Cabriolet - 106k
('96 ZX 1.9TD Elation - 95k sadly missed, '94 XM 2.0i SX estate/auto - 160+k, not missed so much)
x 123

Re: Tales from beyond the grave AKA Dan & Emma's Black & White Xantiae... & a 206

Post by ekjdm14 » 12 Sep 2017, 10:15

Now that would've been a kick in the nuts! I think I may have stopped short of doing so on the say-so of the compression test since it would likely have shown all 4 within spec, but it would've still been mighty confusing.
0x
'95 Xantia LX 1.9D(n/a) auto, Black, 100k miles ("new" engine on 150+k)
'97 Xantia Desire 1.9TD manual, White, 136k (new project)
'02 206 Style 1.4HDi, Mercury Grey, 102k miles

User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 39404
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: North Bucks
My Cars: An orange Skoda 120, a pretty blue Pug 207, Sally the white Saxo, a Giant TCR Bike and a Giant TCR Pro Bike.
x 736

Re: Tales from beyond the grave AKA Dan & Emma's Black & White Xantiae... & a 206

Post by CitroJim » 12 Sep 2017, 11:32

ekjdm14 wrote:
12 Sep 2017, 10:15
Now that would've been a kick in the nuts! I think I may have stopped short of doing so on the say-so of the compression test since it would likely have shown all 4 within spec, but it would've still been mighty confusing.


Yes, that would have been a real head-scratcher Dan... You'd be forgiven for thinking the thing was possessed :lol:

Or just feminine French ;)
1x
Jim

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ekjdm14
donor 2017
Posts: 1487
Joined: 19 Jan 2015, 18:42
Location: Congleton
My Cars: '95 Xantia 1.9D automatic - 100k/150+k on replacement engine
'97 Xantia 1.9TD manual - 136k
'02 206 Style 1.4HDi - 102k now and still plodding along
'91 Ford Escort 1.6i Cabriolet - 106k
('96 ZX 1.9TD Elation - 95k sadly missed, '94 XM 2.0i SX estate/auto - 160+k, not missed so much)
x 123

Re: Tales from beyond the grave AKA Dan & Emma's Black & White Xantiae... & a 206

Post by ekjdm14 » 13 Sep 2017, 10:15

CitroJim wrote:
12 Sep 2017, 11:32
... You'd be forgiven for thinking the thing was possessed :lol:

Or just feminine French ;)


As well she may be, just went out and started her up and firstly I have a drain back issue as she needed priming before doing other than spluttering (no big deal, I'd expect as much given the amount of faffing around the fuel system I've done) & then as she warmed she started trying to drop a cylinder again and smoke came back! :twisted:

Soooo either we're out of fuel (definitely very low ), drawing air (although she still revved freely) or.... Or I don't really know, Madame Xantia strikes once more haha.
0x
'95 Xantia LX 1.9D(n/a) auto, Black, 100k miles ("new" engine on 150+k)
'97 Xantia Desire 1.9TD manual, White, 136k (new project)
'02 206 Style 1.4HDi, Mercury Grey, 102k miles

User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 39404
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: North Bucks
My Cars: An orange Skoda 120, a pretty blue Pug 207, Sally the white Saxo, a Giant TCR Bike and a Giant TCR Pro Bike.
x 736

Re: Tales from beyond the grave AKA Dan & Emma's Black & White Xantiae... & a 206

Post by CitroJim » 13 Sep 2017, 10:26

Definitely feminine Dan :twisted: She's keeping you guessing ;)
0x
Jim

Please note I do not accept PMs...

ekjdm14
donor 2017
Posts: 1487
Joined: 19 Jan 2015, 18:42
Location: Congleton
My Cars: '95 Xantia 1.9D automatic - 100k/150+k on replacement engine
'97 Xantia 1.9TD manual - 136k
'02 206 Style 1.4HDi - 102k now and still plodding along
'91 Ford Escort 1.6i Cabriolet - 106k
('96 ZX 1.9TD Elation - 95k sadly missed, '94 XM 2.0i SX estate/auto - 160+k, not missed so much)
x 123

Re: Tales from beyond the grave AKA Dan & Emma's Black & White Xantiae... & a 206

Post by ekjdm14 » 13 Sep 2017, 15:39

Yep, I think for the moment I'm going to sort out the drain back/air problem, clean the tank sender & put a gallon or two of diesel in & then get on with the wiring plug in the footwell, put the interior back in and save up for the correct instruments to set the timing properly before taking any guesses in the direction of sticky rings or valves.

Small victory nonetheless, there's unlikely to be anything major major wrong with the engine at least.
0x
'95 Xantia LX 1.9D(n/a) auto, Black, 100k miles ("new" engine on 150+k)
'97 Xantia Desire 1.9TD manual, White, 136k (new project)
'02 206 Style 1.4HDi, Mercury Grey, 102k miles

User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 39404
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: North Bucks
My Cars: An orange Skoda 120, a pretty blue Pug 207, Sally the white Saxo, a Giant TCR Bike and a Giant TCR Pro Bike.
x 736

Re: Tales from beyond the grave AKA Dan & Emma's Black & White Xantiae... & a 206

Post by CitroJim » 13 Sep 2017, 16:42

Yes, that's a good route to take Dan :) Get all those things done and it all helps to eliminate potential causes...

Watching with great interest... I'm loving your blog :D
0x
Jim

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ekjdm14
donor 2017
Posts: 1487
Joined: 19 Jan 2015, 18:42
Location: Congleton
My Cars: '95 Xantia 1.9D automatic - 100k/150+k on replacement engine
'97 Xantia 1.9TD manual - 136k
'02 206 Style 1.4HDi - 102k now and still plodding along
'91 Ford Escort 1.6i Cabriolet - 106k
('96 ZX 1.9TD Elation - 95k sadly missed, '94 XM 2.0i SX estate/auto - 160+k, not missed so much)
x 123

Re: Tales from beyond the grave AKA Dan & Emma's Black & White Xantiae... & a 206

Post by ekjdm14 » 13 Sep 2017, 18:42

"Madame Blanc" has this evening behaved herself impeccably. The leaking back/pulling air appears to have been to do with a split leak off pipe which I've attended to along with adding 5 litres of Esso's finest and either she was just running out of fuel earlier OR has decided to lull me into a false sense of security by having, not 5 minutes ago, reached operating temperature without missing a beat (including a couple of short blasts up & down our *ahem* private driveway to clear the soot out as much as possible). Now seems a lot cleaner on blipping the throttle although I'm 99% sure the timing is a bit early now. Oh, and the rocker cover's broken breather pipe spews oily haze and will need replacing very shortly.

Anyhow, that's all for the moment apart from sluicing the engine down with brake cleaner to shift the mix of diesel and oily gunk that's accumulated over the course of my (protracted) testing and final diagnosis/'repair' of the original problem. Not till that breather's sorted though.

French birds eh? :rofl2:
0x
'95 Xantia LX 1.9D(n/a) auto, Black, 100k miles ("new" engine on 150+k)
'97 Xantia Desire 1.9TD manual, White, 136k (new project)
'02 206 Style 1.4HDi, Mercury Grey, 102k miles

User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 39404
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: North Bucks
My Cars: An orange Skoda 120, a pretty blue Pug 207, Sally the white Saxo, a Giant TCR Bike and a Giant TCR Pro Bike.
x 736

Re: Tales from beyond the grave AKA Dan & Emma's Black & White Xantiae... & a 206

Post by CitroJim » 13 Sep 2017, 18:49

Excellent Dan :D
ekjdm14 wrote:
13 Sep 2017, 18:42
French birds eh? :rofl2:


They love playing their games, that's for sure :lol:

They always keep us interested though; never a dull moment with a French car ;)
1x
Jim

Please note I do not accept PMs...

ekjdm14
donor 2017
Posts: 1487
Joined: 19 Jan 2015, 18:42
Location: Congleton
My Cars: '95 Xantia 1.9D automatic - 100k/150+k on replacement engine
'97 Xantia 1.9TD manual - 136k
'02 206 Style 1.4HDi - 102k now and still plodding along
'91 Ford Escort 1.6i Cabriolet - 106k
('96 ZX 1.9TD Elation - 95k sadly missed, '94 XM 2.0i SX estate/auto - 160+k, not missed so much)
x 123

Re: Tales from beyond the grave AKA Dan & Emma's Black & White Xantiae... & a 206

Post by ekjdm14 » 19 Sep 2017, 19:36

Little bit of progress to report on White, grabbed a couple of hours earlier to attend to the crusty wiring in the passenger footwell & reinstall wiring for the electric seats, popped the front carpets back in and hopefully will see the rest of the interior back over the next couple of days. Fingers crossed the soldered bypass surgery on the multiplug will see off the airbag light too, but if not then the next job will be rewiring the Lexia plug and asking the ECU what it's unhappy about.

Oh and a small side note, I think I've mentioned previously my theory that car problems/failures seem to happen in "seasons " for want of a better description. Well from reading the Peugeot forums I think September '17 is the time for ECU output failures en-masse :? Quite a few 1.4HDi cars affected too, should I start worrying about ours now too? Gulp.
0x
'95 Xantia LX 1.9D(n/a) auto, Black, 100k miles ("new" engine on 150+k)
'97 Xantia Desire 1.9TD manual, White, 136k (new project)
'02 206 Style 1.4HDi, Mercury Grey, 102k miles

User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 39404
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: North Bucks
My Cars: An orange Skoda 120, a pretty blue Pug 207, Sally the white Saxo, a Giant TCR Bike and a Giant TCR Pro Bike.
x 736

Re: Tales from beyond the grave AKA Dan & Emma's Black & White Xantiae... & a 206

Post by CitroJim » 20 Sep 2017, 05:21

Hope my Pug survives the 'season' Dan... It's the only car I have on the road now :)
1x
Jim

Please note I do not accept PMs...

ekjdm14
donor 2017
Posts: 1487
Joined: 19 Jan 2015, 18:42
Location: Congleton
My Cars: '95 Xantia 1.9D automatic - 100k/150+k on replacement engine
'97 Xantia 1.9TD manual - 136k
'02 206 Style 1.4HDi - 102k now and still plodding along
'91 Ford Escort 1.6i Cabriolet - 106k
('96 ZX 1.9TD Elation - 95k sadly missed, '94 XM 2.0i SX estate/auto - 160+k, not missed so much)
x 123

Re: Tales from beyond the grave AKA Dan & Emma's Black & White Xantiae... & a 206

Post by ekjdm14 » 20 Sep 2017, 10:10

CitroJim wrote:
20 Sep 2017, 05:21
Hope my Pug survives the 'season' Dan... It's the only car I have on the road now :)


There's absolutely no reason it wouldn't survive Jim, having already been subject to your fettling back when she was "The Deathtrap" :) Very strange though if all these "missing/low outputs" came down to the ECUs. I'll have to re-read your blog actually and refresh my memory on your own saga in case it throws any light on this current crop of Pug problems.
0x
'95 Xantia LX 1.9D(n/a) auto, Black, 100k miles ("new" engine on 150+k)
'97 Xantia Desire 1.9TD manual, White, 136k (new project)
'02 206 Style 1.4HDi, Mercury Grey, 102k miles