Gauging interest in upcoming production run of LDS Pipe Fittings

[darbuck]

Just out of interest did anyone look at making up the power steering hoses.

[MattBLancs]

Just out of interest did anyone look at making up the power steering hoses.

I think this is the latest thread on that topic:
viewtopic.php?t=72361#p729272

[darbuck]

I was thinking the threaded fitting might be a better option. I have a mate that makes up hydraulic hoses so I will probably get him to make something up for me and get him to tap the housing while he is at it. I don't fancy leaving air con pipes on the rack when I reseal it.

[Jay-Bruce]

There is a bit more development on the steering rack fittings than is shown in the thread that Matt linked to...

A while ago Bobins kindly sent me up a set of steering pipework and a pinion housing. As Darbuck mentions, the pipework is more akin to Air Conditioning pipework with the ferrule/o-ring/flange setup. They are also similar to AC pipework in that the tubes are aluminium, braised on to swages/ferrules. It seems what when these get disturbed, they are prone to not sealing again, and they corrode in proximity to the bolt. I did investigate AC pipework but struggled to find any suitably high pressure hose that likes oil, equally so I couldn't find any hydraulic hose crimps that came to braze on fittings permitting us to braise on tubes. So making a like for like solution is kind of out of the window.

[this could be useful info for Darbuck]
Going back to the pinion housing, I measured up the ports on the pinion housing and worked out that the ports would nicely tap out to take 1/4" NPT, which would let us screw in nipples and come out to JIC4 or JIC6 nipples [ 1/4"NTP(m) x JIC4(m) ].

For the pressure line from the pump that would be a relatively easy to make JIC --> Banjo hose. The return port is obviously low pressure, so I was just going to suggest 1/4" NPT(m) --> 3/8" (?) hose barb and jubilee clip the return line on to the barb.

I put the power steering pipework on the back burner after one of our FCF citronean kin had a really good experience with the Yorkshire steering company, near barnsley IIRC, who supplied pipework ends from a berlingo. (Was that Graham? Or was it Kenny? Or a I going totally daft?)

Seeing as Svod has got a handle on similar, but not identical, fittings for the suspension cylinder Flexible Hose Assemblies, I'd reckon he's got a better start on this than I do.

However, should I be lucky enough to act on my second dibbs on Stu's C5 - someone else had pm'd him before I put my name on it - I'll be swinging my attention to steering stuff, using his car as a testbed for anything I come up with for the steering, and also to prove my fittings. Getting Stu's car will accelerate development of the fittings as I cannot leave the duchess's C5 in bits in the workshop while waiting on revised prototype fittings, where as doing that with Stu's car wouldn't cause any issues. And as a bonus when I finish Stu's car I would give that to the duchess as a courtesy car while I go to town on her C5. So, yeah fingers crossed stu's other buyer bails...

[MattBLancs]

I put the power steering pipework on the back burner after one of our FCF citronean kin had a really good experience with the Yorkshire steering company, near barnsley IIRC, who supplied pipework ends from a berlingo. (Was that Graham? Or was it Kenny? Or a I going totally daft?)...

Found it!

viewtopic.php?p=743090#p743090

aerodynamica was who had this fix from Wakefield

[darbuck]

Hi Jay/Matt thanks for that, yeah that's what I had in mind. I am in Ireland so I am looking at more local solutions but I will share whatever I come up with.

[Jay-Bruce]

I haven't looked at the pump end yet, but even if it's another of these AC style flanges, I'd reckon tapping it out for banjo or an NPT nipple would work.

[darbuck]

I will have a look when I pull the hoses and let you know if I think it's feasible.I can't see it being an issue.

[Jay-Bruce]

Stu's C5 went to someone else, which means I'll need to double dose on the brave pills and YOLO it with the duchess's C5 as my test bench.

[DHallworth]

I’ve just read this topic from start to finish.

I feel guilty having bought Stu’s C5 now knowing that Jay wanted to use it to test fittings on to benefit other owners.

I will be going through the car with a tooth comb when I can get it into our workshop and on the ramp. I don’t like rust and don’t like breakdowns either so I’m keen to replace whatever pipes that I can. It’s my 3rd 3.0 HDI C5 now and it will be returned to its former glory.

I’ve expressed an interest in a set of the stainless pipes from Svod. I like the idea of his stainless fittings with a conventional length of hydraulic pipe in the middle. It should also aid fitting and routing of the pipes. If I can help by testing other fittings on the car and providing feedback then I’m more than happy to do so Ditto for purchasing them. I know of a Citroen specialist who would likely buy these for stock too.

David.

[Jay-Bruce]

David, don't feel guilty, I am genuinely glad that it's "one of us" (enthusiasts) that has bought the car rather than a scrap man, so all good. I swithered and missed an opportunity; however, your kind offer to use this C5 as a testbed is very much appreciated, and something that I'm likely to take you up on, and if you refurb that car with my prototype fittings the goal of the greater good is not impeded by your purchase of it, so yeah, definitely all good brother...

[DHallworth]

I spoke to Citroen the other day about the steering rack pipes for the 3.0 HDi. Neither the low pressure or high pressure pipes are available any more.

Looks like my 2.7 is going to become a donor until there’s a solution for the steering pipes unfortunately.

If I can get them off the car I might be able to turn ends on the lathe and look to use rubber in the middle.

David.

[Jay-Bruce]

No need to canabilise one car to feed another, in actual fact I'd actively advise against doing down that path as disturbing the pipes on the 2.7 might render them useless as well, leaving you with two crippled cars. You can tap out the port on the rack to 1/4NPT, then put in a 1/4"NPT(m) x JIC 4 (m) nipple, on the pressure side, and a 1/4"NPTx 3/8" (?) hose barb for the return. Or you could tap out the ports to a metric thread like m12x1.50 / 1.25 and put in a banjo bolt.

[Jay-Bruce]

OK, so I had been thinking about this, the premise of the LDS fitting is that tube nut pushes down on the fixed to the pipe cone, which pushes the pipe further into the tapered hole which bites on the o-ring. Any flare with a free coneisn't going to work like that, while it might seal, it's decidedly not right. So I designed the exquisite nipples pictured here:


As pretty as they are, I wasn't too keen on the o-ring at the bottom being twisted, so I actually contemplated a 3 piece redesign of that nipple to allow the bottom threaded section to rotate freely relative to the o-ring groove, but even to me this was an over-engineered to [expletive] solution. So I took myself aside and forced myself to an Elon "First Principles" moment, which culminated in me deciding to ditch the nose gubbins from the nipple design, and coat the threads going into the port with a hydraulic thread-sealing compound. So the simplified part looks like this:


These are then ran into the LDS ports with a thread sealant applied:



Our C5 (X7) is now running on 4 of these new simplified nipples:

You'll see I've replaced the flexi pipe from the ally union to the firmness regulator with a cunifer pipe, and on the other side of the union, the fore to aft pipe is also new cunifer, all connected using my new fittings. They ran up to pressure no leaks etc, no dramas, so I'm going to say I've got a very effective and reasonably cheap solution to the unobtainable LDS pipe fittings.

[MattBLancs]

Excellent progress!