Differences between THP engine timing tensioner

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lancia58
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Differences between THP engine timing tensioner

Post by lancia58 » 11 Nov 2018, 11:16

Hi

I may need to change the timing tensioner for my C4 2009 THP. I went to Citroen dealer and there are two different part numbers one is 0829G3 and the other is 9816058580 . The 0829G3 is one third price of the 9816058580 .Visually they look completely the same. The 9816058580 is the newer part number . Any one knows if but the part number there is any difference ? Does the 9816058580 better in any way ?

Thanks
Zohar

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Differences between THP engine timing tensioner

Post by GiveMeABreak » 11 Nov 2018, 12:20

What's the VIN for this one Zohar?

You are looking at 2 completely different engines, that is why they are different. The parts are different as are most of the other components shown for the different engines. VIN is essential to get the correct part.

0829G3 is for the EP6 Injection Engine
9816058580 is for an EP6DT Engine

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Re: Differences between THP engine timing tensioner

Post by lancia58 » 11 Nov 2018, 13:53

Marc,

VIN Is :VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]

Thanks
Zohar

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Re: Differences between THP engine timing tensioner

Post by lancia58 » 11 Nov 2018, 15:35

Hi

What could be the implications if one installs the 0829G3 instead of the 9816058580. I suspect that this is the case with my C4 2009 THP. Maybe this is the cause to the timing problem I had and still have see threads

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=61276

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=61134

Thanks
Zohar

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Re: Differences between THP engine timing tensioner

Post by GiveMeABreak » 11 Nov 2018, 16:15

You need the 9816058580 part for your engine. The other one may be cheaper but it is NOT the same and will not fit.

55BCA156-C5E6-4C4F-AF83-FF9BB69D2686.jpeg
C02DB335-17B1-4B1F-953A-6567C4AE3B5A.jpeg
Table ATable B
As you can see there are many components that are different and some that are in one engine and not the other. Your part (9816058580) is for Table A and the one you need. even part 10 that the tensioning bolts go in are different sizes.

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Re: Differences between THP engine timing tensioner

Post by lancia58 » 11 Nov 2018, 16:40

Marc,

According to the service history I have the 0829G3 was installed , I wonder what could be the implications

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Zohar

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Re: Differences between THP engine timing tensioner

Post by GiveMeABreak » 11 Nov 2018, 19:08

Basically they've fitted the wrong one I suspect - without checking - or assuming that that would fit. If this was a Citroen dealer, I would take it back and complain as they have not followed their own parts data and this could have consequences on the operation of the vehicle. If you have the evidence even better!

If there was a replacement part it would be listed on the live data and it clearly is not based on your VIN Zohar. It's no wonder you were confused when the documentation is showing the wrong part was fitted.

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DHallworth
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Re: Differences between THP engine timing tensioner

Post by DHallworth » 11 Nov 2018, 19:10

I've heard the BMW tensioner is better and cheaper then the PSA ones too.

David.

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Re: Differences between THP engine timing tensioner

Post by GiveMeABreak » 11 Nov 2018, 19:21

Actually there are the following variations of this engine: :shock:

3 versions of the EP6DT:
5FT (yours), 5FX & 5FR. All different power outputs: (103, 110 & 115 KW)

Then there is the:
EP6DTS (2 x 5FY 128 KW), a 5FF (149 KW) and a 5FM (152 KW)
EP6CDTM - 5FE 110 KW, EP6CDTMD 5FE, EP6CDTM 5FM 120 KW)
EP6CDT: 5FA (92 KW), 5FN (110 kW0, & 5FV (115 KW)
EP6CDTX: (A) and (B) GTi with 5FU 147 KW

A lot of the above have different RPM figures too.

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Re: Differences between THP engine timing tensioner

Post by lancia58 » 11 Nov 2018, 19:53

I bought the car on Feb 14th 2016 I am the second hand. The car was serviced on Jan 24th by the previous owner by a Citroen authorized garage ( dealer garage ) . I have the service history of the car. The timing was serviced due to a recall. Recall number RCL0184 and next to this number it is written timing gear. The only thing that was replaced is the tensioner and it is written next to it that the tensioner was replaced and the 0829G3.
I looked over the net what is the RCL0184 but couldn't find any information, I guess it is local to I do suspect the the timing problem I face is related to this fact.
I'll call the garage tomorrow and ask. Visually these parts looks exactly the same. I know that there is a spring in the tensioner and may be the springs are different with their K factor. I have problem I described in the following thread

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=61276


Every related link I found in the net claims it is a small timing shift . If the tensioner does not apply enough force on the timing change a slight timing shift may appear. I am not sure this is the reason but it is my best "guess"

I wonder is any one know what is the difference between the 0829G3 and the 9816058580 , both does fit but I guess there should be a difference between them as they have different part number and for some reason the 9816058580 price is three time the price of the 0829G3.

Thansk
Zohar

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Re: Differences between THP engine timing tensioner

Post by GiveMeABreak » 11 Nov 2018, 20:58

I think you may be right.

PSA have identical part numbers for Citroen, Peugeot & DS replacement parts. So if they identical they are used across the same or even different engines and models the part number won’t change.

The fact that there are 2 separate numbers would indeed indicate a different part, however small the difference may be. As you can see the whole timing and cams are different between the 2 diagrams.

Recall notices aren’t really made public, however there was a TSB (Technical Service Bulletin) for your car as a result of a banging noise from the timing side of the engine. I can’t tell you what was involved as I don’t have the document.

I think it might be worth pursuing though, especially if you are having issues.

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Re: Differences between THP engine timing tensioner

Post by lancia58 » 12 Nov 2018, 14:50

Just talk with couple of Citroen dealer garages and all said that it was Citroen instruction to change the tensioner on C4 THP engine to 0829G3 the one that in Citroen service is intended for the EP6 ( None turbo prince engine ) . Later Citroen instruct to use the 9816058580. I looked over the web and find lots of links in which the 0829G3 is used for the THP version i.e the EP6DT. I do not know Citroen instruct to use the 0829G3 and then the 9816058580. I wonder if in the UK there was the same instruction

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Zohar

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Re: Differences between THP engine timing tensioner

Post by GiveMeABreak » 12 Nov 2018, 15:54

No instructions recorded on the database. And why change to the wrong part (0829G3) then later back to the correct part: 9816058580???? Makes no sense.

When Citroen replace a part with a modification or a newer redesigned part, they precede the part number with 'RP' that tells us the part has been replaced. This is NOT the case here.

If I was replacing the part today or even back in 2009 when your car was manufactured, 9816058580 would still be the part listed - no 0829G3 comes up against your VIN even today - which is why I initially said that is the incorrect part number and I still stand by that in the absence of any other documentation to say otherwise. There is not TSB listed that says to replace this either - and if your were an independent Citroen authorised garage they would be none the wiser when looking up parts.

Ask them to show you the evidence of the change and then ask why they are still not listing the 0829G3 part as 'current' against your vehicle on the live database.