Hdi engines

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Ian M france
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Hdi engines

Post by Ian M france » 23 Sep 2018, 20:20

Hi I am new here hello all. I am sorry to start with a question but like most I come here seeking help, I have a 2008 dispatch with the 2L HDI 16V The van lost all power when driving and would not restart and turned over very easy so thought timing belt
The timing belt has lost its teeth over about 30cm but looked in good other than that so do not know if belt went or there was a problem in engine which caused belt to get like that.
Started looking at engine and camshaft pulley turns freely by hand so think both camshafts must have broken ( I can see chain turning inside and both sprockets seam to turn),will need to get injectors out to see more, looked at stripping head off but think it is a lot of work and could find more problems in bottom of engine so think I will buy a used engine as seams cheapest quickies fix, and I will have a spare engine to take bits off if I have problems in future
I have looked at ebay and can find 2L hdi 16v later engine (with plastic air intake) out of C4 and others but these are 136hp think my van is 120hp will these engines fit? what will need to be changed over (may be flywheel?) is the extra hp just a difference in the ECU, and will my ECU talk to the fuel pump or will I need to change them over? any ideas would be good
the engines for the dispatch seam to be more and think a engine that has been pushing a c4 around will have worked less than one that has been in a dispatch
many thank for reading my post

Hell Razor5543
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Re: Hdi engines

Post by Hell Razor5543 » 23 Sep 2018, 20:41

As far as I am aware most (if not all) HDi engines have rocker arms. These are designed to be the weak link should a timing belt fail. I would take the rocker cover off and see what you can find. While the items shown in the following link may not be the right ones for your engine the images show what sort of thing (and, roughly, how much) you are looking for;

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/16-X-ROCKER- ... SwdytazJQr

It could be worth considering repairing the engine rather than trying to replace it.

Oh, and despite you having a sad reason for joining, :welc: to the French Car Forum.

Ian M france
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Re: Hdi engines

Post by Ian M france » 23 Sep 2018, 21:13

Hi thanks hell Razor that looks a lot less work than changing engine, reading up on this I think I need to take the injectors out to get rocker cover off, I have looked at the tools to take them out and are a bit price but think with out one I will not get them out, I will post what i find

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EDC5
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Re: Hdi engines

Post by EDC5 » 23 Sep 2018, 21:41

I think you'll have the 120hp version of the DW10BTED4 engine (RHK). The 140 hp version is called the RHR or RHF and the only difference is software as far as I'm aware.

As for removing the rocker cover, you can leave the injectors in place however it is integrated with the inlet manifold and the lot has to come off as one.

I've recently done this so there might be some useful pics in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=60717#p584453

Ian M france
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Re: Hdi engines

Post by Ian M france » 23 Sep 2018, 22:15

Hi EDC5 thanks for reply and photos, think can get to exhaust valves but not inlet without taking injectors out but have not got that far, in the dispatch there is not a lot of room at back of engine, have got rocker cover/ inlet manifold disconnected from engine but still need to get it free from all the bits that are around it, I ran out of time but will try again tomorrow

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EDC5
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Re: Hdi engines

Post by EDC5 » 23 Sep 2018, 22:23

That's a good point, only the exhaust camshaft is visible with the rocker cover off.

If teeth are missing from the belt it suggests that something has seized, either the camshaft pulley or the water pump?
Have the belt and water pump been replaced at the correct interval?

Ian M france
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Re: Hdi engines

Post by Ian M france » 23 Sep 2018, 22:48

on second belt and done just under 100k, I had planed to change it end of summer as belt has been on 5/6 years when I have a bit of time, water pump turns freely, belt has been on some time so think it is not it had been badly fitted, I have had the van just over a year so do not know for sure its history, but all seams to tie up, but who knows

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EDC5
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Re: Hdi engines

Post by EDC5 » 23 Sep 2018, 22:58

That's a bit concerning. My RHR version of the same engine has recently had the belt changed for the first time just before the 10 year mark.

So, if the water pump turns freely then it could have been the camshaft that seized (assuming no con-rods have exited the block) causing the belt teeth to be ripped off by the stationary pulley.

I remember a couple of posts about this engine suffering catastrophic valvetrain failure:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=60311&hilit=rhr#p577825

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=59940&hilit=rhr#p573557

Not sure if any of those issues could lead to the camshaft seizing though.

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Hdi engines

Post by GiveMeABreak » 23 Sep 2018, 23:12

There wasnt a 120 version of the DW10BTED4 engine Elis, but there was a 120 version of the DW10 UTED4 IIRC :)

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EDC5
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Re: Hdi engines

Post by EDC5 » 23 Sep 2018, 23:19

Yep, completely right Marc! I must have left my engine code notebook in my other anorak :rofl2:

As to the differences between the two engines; they look identical from the pics I've seen online, perhaps the difference is just the software or possibly injection system but physically they seem identical.

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Re: Hdi engines

Post by GiveMeABreak » 23 Sep 2018, 23:20

Ian if you have your VIN I can determine the engine and associated components so will be able to compare these against a donor if you are going down that path, but I would suggest that the whole injection management system may be different as well as the mechanical components.

Ian M france
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Re: Hdi engines

Post by Ian M france » 24 Sep 2018, 21:51

Hi all thanks for all the help so far, got the plastic rocker cover /inlet manifold off tonight, looks like it is the rocker arms that have gone, I have ordered extractor for injectors, can not see much until rocker cover is off, have also ordered haynes manual for it, I need all the help I can get, sprayed all injectors with wd40 so hope all will come out without too much problems, extractor will take 2 /3 days to arrive, when I get cover off I will decide if I change engine or try and fix this one, thought the td5 discovery engine was a pig to work on but on this I have a lot less room and the hardest part is not braking any clips might take engine mounting off and see if i can move it forward to give more room I will sort out vin number also

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EDC5
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Re: Hdi engines

Post by EDC5 » 24 Sep 2018, 22:37

Wow, sounds like a nightmare. Any idea what could have caused it? Some pictures would be great if you get a chance.

I'm trying to think about what could have caused this issue, is oil starvation a possibility?

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Re: Hdi engines

Post by GiveMeABreak » 25 Sep 2018, 00:08

When was the timing belt changed? It is possible the timing was done incorrectly with a piston hitting the valve, damaging the rocker? It could of been a time bomb waiting to happen...

Ian M france
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Re: Hdi engines

Post by Ian M france » 26 Sep 2018, 22:03

Hi all the vin number is VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff] any help with what engine type I would need would be most help full,
I still hope to repair this engine but am a concerned as to why it broke, think it was changed about 50k put can not find what I did with paper work for van, It was changed because of age not mileage, I had planned to change end of summer as not very hard to do on these, I have a scudo hdi 16v but 2005 with older engine and have changed that twice, once to fit new fuel pump,hardest part is getting crankshaft bolt off, the later engine is easier as no pump on belt, I have had the van around 18 months and have done around 30k engine has run well except I had to block off egr because it lost all power about a year ago, it would start and then cut straight out but has run with it blocked off without problems and no lights have can on
Back to problem I am still waiting for tool to take out injectors, when that arrives I will be able to see all and can decide what to do, would be happier if I knew why it broke,
Could be it has done more miles than the clock says but all seam to be as it should for that mileage and belt looked good except teeth that have gone
I have read about problems with the people carriers having belt brake because something gets into belt housing, I was driving on a road that had been re-done earlier in the week and there where a lot of lose stones on the road any one know of that causing problem,
van was going down a hill and I did not have foot on accelarator so engine was doing the breaking
can not see that it was damaged when fitted as it has done so many miles since and the teeth where still in bottom of casing and all looked like they had just being ripped off the belt also looked like the have just come off, I have seen many belts that have broken and normally look well worn.
I do not want to refit it all to have it brake again
If all looks good except rockers I think I will get new rockers and then turn crank 90 deg past tdc I think this will take pistons to half way down, then turn crank shaft to see if it turns or if it jams up, would be good if i could find used rockers as if it is not okay it is around 150 pounds that I could put towards changing engine, but that is the gamble
any ideas welcome