C5 ABS warning light - advice please

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electrokid
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C5 ABS warning light - advice please

Post by electrokid »

Hi,

I have a C5 estate with the ABS warning light on. I have bought a secondhand unit which is now fitted to the car and the warning light is still on. I've had a conversation with a very helpful chap who told me exactly how to fix this - but it seems to involve cutting off the lid to the ABS ECU to access the PCB and I'd prefer someone else to do that !

And the questions...

Should I send the original unit to a rebuilder then refit it to the car ?

Or

Should I find someone (main dealer ?) who knows how to programme the secondhand replacement with the VIN of my car (or whatever is needed to get it to talk to the rest of the car) ?
Brian.


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Re: C5 ABS warning light - advice please

Post by GiveMeABreak »

It really depends on what the problem is to start with - an ABS light can be on for a number of reasons and personally, I wouldn't go replacing parts without fully understanding what the fault codes are first of all. You'll need a Lexia to read the fault codes properly - generic readers are not suited to this task really and do not always have the ability to interpret the manufacturer-specific codes correctly if at all.

As for coding it - a Lexia can do this too if it is really necessary to replace the unit. but I certainly wouldn't attempt repairs of this unit - it is a safety device after all.

If it is established that it is the ABS block and no other components of the system, it will be important to get the correct module for your car. Pop your VIN code up and we can advise on the correct module. But I would get it to somebody with a Lexia if you don't own your own one and get the fault codes first of all.
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Re: C5 ABS warning light - advice please

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

electrokid wrote: 16 Sep 2018, 13:00 Hi,

I have a C5 estate with the ABS warning light on. I have bought a secondhand unit which is now fitted to the car and the warning light is still on. I've had a conversation with a very helpful chap who told me exactly how to fix this - but it seems to involve cutting off the lid to the ABS ECU to access the PCB and I'd prefer someone else to do that !

And the questions...

Should I send the original unit to a rebuilder then refit it to the car ?

Or

Should I find someone (main dealer ?) who knows how to programme the secondhand replacement with the VIN of my car (or whatever is needed to get it to talk to the rest of the car) ?



Sounds expensive already. Before spending a single penny when an abs light appears check out and clean up the most vulnerable part of any abs system. The wheel speed sensor, the reluctor rings, and the wiring at each corner.

Alright a can of electrical contact cleaner isn’t free, but checking the reluctor rings are not loose or have missing Teeth, and cleaning the rust off the hollows and brightening up the ridges with an electricians screwdriver is. Breaking cleaning up and remaking of the electrical connections, and visually checking the wiring for each sensor is also worth it. The physical setting of the gap between the sensor and the ring may also be affected by build up of crud, and if you can getting the old sensor out to clean it up and reseat it after the clean may also produce results.

Can’t help feeling the Abs light on situation in the hands of the professionals turns all too quickly into the highest expense “solution”.

Regards Neil
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Re: C5 ABS warning light - advice please

Post by Michel »

electrokid wrote: 16 Sep 2018, 13:00 Hi,

I have a C5 estate with the ABS warning light on.


I'd be *very* surprised if it's not simply a dirty or missing reluctor ring or a duff sensor. You need to get it on a Lexia or Diagbox, this will tell you exactly what the problem is.

Where are you? There may be a member with Lexia somewhere near, who's willing to read the codes for you if you can get there..
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Re: C5 ABS warning light - advice please

Post by electrokid »

Thanks guys - appreciated.

VIN number is VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]

Dodgy hips and a sloping drive that is also shared all get in the way of working on the car myself. My local tame independent garage uses a generic reader which showed ABS pump failure. I bought the secondhand unit and he fitted it but the same fault showed but the reader was smart enough to have control over individual solenoids so that bleeding could be done.

I then took the car to Citroen Car Centre at Ash Vale who have a Lexia and the same ABS pump failure was shown but they at least identified the (replacement) unit as an MK60.1

The MOT has run out and the arrangement is that I sort out the original unit then book it in with them to re-fit the fixed original unit and do an MOT so I can actually drive it there legally.

The white label on the original unit has 96 417 673 80 and the barcode 10.0206-0003.4 and is made by ATE

The number on the electronics box is10.0960-1110.3 and I'm in St Johns near Woking if there's a Lexia expert nearby that would sure be welcome !
Brian.


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Re: C5 ABS warning light - advice please

Post by myglaren »

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Have you ever been obfuscated Missus?
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Re: C5 ABS warning light - advice please

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

electrokid wrote: 16 Sep 2018, 19:05 Thanks guys - appreciated.

VIN number is VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]**************[VIN obfuscated]

I then took the car to Citroen Car Centre at Ash Vale who have a Lexia and the same ABS pump failure was shown but they at least identified the (replacement) unit as an MK60.1


Ouch Brian!

Wonder how much a MK60.1 is, shudder to think!

Also wonder why such a component should fail, not exactlly in constant use so it wears out.

Regards Neil
Last edited by NewcastleFalcon on 16 Sep 2018, 19:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: C5 ABS warning light - advice please

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Ok, no need to spell,it out Brian, I can see it fine - it’s part of the filtering we use to protect the VIN from public view.

Click to Zoom
3E34E0C0-D510-47E4-B5EE-86A71CA7394F.jpeg
Here you go, the hydraulic block and the ECU can be separated. The Hydraulic block is part 454154. This is specific to your car. The ECU is 454280.
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Re: C5 ABS warning light - advice please

Post by electrokid »

Thanks for that.

I went as far as separating the motor, valve block and the electronics module (2 bolts and pull it apart). The helful guy I spoke to said that there are two parts within the electronics module that arer connected just by being forced together (I imagine much like the tiger tail used to connect a PCB to a liquid crystal display if that makes sense). He didn't tell me how to access the electronics unit and it would appear looking at on-line vids that it's a case of using a saw or a Dremel with a thin grinding wheel to cut the lid off. I also had difficulty removing the motor from its casing to inspect the brushes so all-in-all I'm thinking it might eventually be much more expensive if I screw it up.
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Re: C5 ABS warning light - advice please

Post by Simple76 »

Worth exploring second hand ecu within Second hand market. I had ABS fault before on c5 ,scanner indicated it was faulty module. Using live data on scanner I was able to see each wheel speed sensor picking up signal apart from one of the front ones. Turned out to be faulty abs sensor.
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Re: C5 ABS warning light - advice please

Post by GiveMeABreak »

This is why it is so important to get it read properly first to eliminate other causes.
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Re: C5 ABS warning light - advice please

Post by electrokid »

PARTIAL SUCCESS !

My local guy suggested disconnecting the battery for at least an hour after which time apparently the various computery bits have to 're-learn' to communicate with each other. This I did - and it worked ! ! The secondhand unit is now communicating with the main ecu and when the car is started the ABS light now goes out - hooray !

I've read that intermittant ABS faults bring on the ABS light until next ignition switch-on but if ther are 'too many' intemittant faults registered then the ABS is 'locked out' and the ABS light is on permanently. This is what happened to me - for a week or so the ABS light would come on soon after pulling away which I thought indicated a failed wheel sensor - there's no chance of an error signal until you pull away.But after the first week of that the light was on permanently.

Here's the rub: it seems that when the ABS is 'locked out' then that is the only code accessible - any earlier fault codes such as wheel sensors don't seem to be available to the Lexia at this stage so hopefully the folks I'm taking it to tomorrow will have a better idea of what is happening so at least for the moment I've saved the cost of an ABS unit rebuild - around £200.

NewcastleFalcon wrote...
Ouch Brian!

Wonder how much a MK60.1 is, shudder to think!

Also wonder why such a component should fail, not exactlly in constant use so it wears out.

Regards Neil

You aint kidding ! ! Early on in this saga I had a 'quote' from a dealer - the 'brake hydraulic block' and the 'calculator' would have come to £2064.76 but fortunately they are both 'NLA' not that I would have taken that route bearing in mind the value of the car and my state pension income :( However the secondhand one cost me £24 from frenchspares.com via eBay.
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Re: C5 ABS warning light - advice please

Post by electrokid »

Hmmm... still no joy - garage can still only see the ABS pump fail code. Someonhe I spoke to mentioned a pressure sensor that could cause the same symptoms. I also saw a mention of "live data" - I presume that means someone checking the Lexia while the car is being driven to check wheel sensors - anyone confirm or add to that ?
Brian.


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Re: C5 ABS warning light - advice please

Post by GiveMeABreak »

The live data will just monitor and show you what is happening for the selected system. As for an ABS sensor - if one is not working or intermittent, the whole ABS system will shut down for safety reasons and trigger the ABS / ESP warning light permanently.

There will be some actuator tests available - selectable from the live data parameters - but if the system is showing an ABS pump or block fault that may of course restrict test availability pending the original fault being resolved.

But any ABS sensor fault should show up on a diagnostic - assuming that the ABS ECU is functioning and there is communication with it. If not, there should at least be a record of the failure in the log.
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