C5 x7 Changing/upgrading basic headlights with xenon headlights - posibile?

[TodiCroitor]

Hi guys,
It is possible to change the headlights with xenon headlights or is there anything else to upgrade to?
Just last night I hit a deer that jumped out of no where in front of me and it broke my right headlight. And I was thinking that if I must change it why not upgrading?

It is there a complicated process to do that’s or just a simple swap?

[GiveMeABreak]

Hi Dani, it’s not really a practical or cost effective operation to be honest with you.

For a start, you have the metallic suspension variant, and this was never an option on those models, as you don't have the suspension ECU.

Apart from the headlights themselves which have completely different connections, there is the Ballast, headlight levelling , the ECU, headlight washer system to install and of course ECU programming.

It has been discussed here before on the forum and it was never done in the end. I don’t know anyone who has actually ever done this because of the cost and time, even with a hydraulically suspended C5.

[TodiCroitor]

That clears out things.
Thanks a lot for the info.
... back to the basics

[wheeler]

I've done the conversion the other way around on a mk1, It was a LHD car getting re registered in the UK, It originally had xenons but was going to be to expensive to add RHD xenons so I just fitted normal halogen units. It was very straightforward the connectors were the same so just plugged straight in. The xenon lights were then unconfigured from the BHI and the BSI re configured to have front fog lamps & everything worked as it should.
The conversion in theory should be the same if changing from halogen to xenon, of course there would be no headlamp washers fitted though.
My understanding of the MOT stance on this (unless it has changed in the recent amendments) is that headlamp cleaning & self levelling systems if fitted must work.
That above is based on a mk1. Cant really comment on the X7 as I have never up close looked at the xenon setup, of course if yours has steel springs that would make the self levelling part more difficult due to not having body height sensors. Again though the self levelling system must work if fitted.

[Stickyfinger]

if fitted

When made now, the manufactures MUST fit it. The IF fitted bit is to avoid backdating test standards/fail.

There is a good reason that the regs for new cars say MUST be Fitted : because they proved to be "flashers" without it.

[wheeler]

Out of curiosity how bad is the damage to the lamp unit ? is the glass in tact ?
These headlamps are designed to deliberately break on impact at specific weak points depending on the severity, there are repair brackets available from the dealers
6212F0 (left) & 6212F1 (right) for way less than the price of a complete lamp unit.

[wheeler]

if fitted

When made now, the manufactures MUST fit it. The IF fitted bit is to avoid backdating test standards/fail.

There is a good reason that the regs for new cars say MUST be Fitted : because they proved to be "flashers" without it.

I understand that factory fitted xenons MUST have a cleaning & self levelling system fitted if they are built with xenons.
However retro fitting is different.

[Stickyfinger]

That is my point, you are "Retro Fitting" an item known to be a problem for other road users saftey.

Bad choice and not worth considering on that basis alone.

[Homer]

My understanding of the MOT stance on this (unless it has changed in the recent amendments) is that headlamp cleaning & self levelling systems if fitted must work.

That would be the UK MOT though. This C5 is in Romania.

I'm not sure Xenons would be any help for spotting deer about to leap out anyway, aren't they even more directional if anything?

[GiveMeABreak]

It really is not worth messing with IMO.

People need to forget the UK v European MOT issues - the new MOT regs in May 2018 were, in part, introduced to be compliant with the EU roadworthiness directive which concerns ALL member states.

If the manufacturer fitted the washer and levelling system in the first place to ALL models that had the Xenon option (which is just about standard on every Xenon car I've seen) then that is tested accordingly. Therefore anything fitted by the end-user has to be deemed to be 'after market' and tested accordingly regardless if is is an OEM part or not, because the OEM would not have fitted half the system! So now, according to this includes washing and levelling systems as I've highlighted. My MOT chap who has been testing my car for years, has his Land rover and customises and restores cars - and actually removed his HID system as it would not be compliant. The changes described below are an attempt to treat all vehicles the same and to get some of these horrendous HID conversions off the road.

Here's a part from the VOSA document regarding this:

Section 1.7 – Headlamps
To keep the test up to date with modern technology, new checks have been added in respect of High Intensity Discharge (HID) and Light Emitting Diode (LED) lamps. HID lamps use a gas discharge system and require a ballast, igniter and special high voltage
circuitry. They do not use a filament in the bulb, but have two electrodes in a glass tube filled with Xenon gas and metal salts.

A high voltage is applied between the electrodes causing an arc to form which ionizes the xenon atoms, vaporises the metallic salts and creates light. A high voltage, typically up to 20,000 volts, is required to strike and maintain the arc. Compared with halogen headlamps, HID lamps are more efficient, have a longer service life and are much brighter; up to three times brighter in fact. The benefit of this extra brightness is that it enables drivers using HID lights to see approximately 30% further up the road ahead than for a halogen system.

The downside of this extra brightness is the potential to cause excessive dazzle to oncoming traffic. To combat this, HID headlamps often have advanced electronics that control the shape of the headlamp beam to avoid dazzle when the car climbs or descends hills and likewise when the vehicle is accelerating or braking.

Dazzle can also be caused if the lamps are dirty or aimed too high due to, for example, carrying rear seat passengers and/or heavy items in the boot. Vehicles with HID headlamps are therefore required to have a headlamp washing system (a wiper is not required) and be self levelling, which may be achieved either by the use of either headlamp or suspension levelling systems.

The presence and operation of these headlamp cleaning and levelling devices has been added to the test. Therefore, if a mandatory headlamp levelling or cleaning device is missing, inoperative or otherwise obviously defective, the vehicle will fail.

This raises the question of whether these checks apply to vehicles fitted with after-market HID lighting kits. These kits convert conventional halogen headlamps to HID Xenon and they are widely sold and fitted to vehicles used on the road. The Department for Transport considers that after-market systems should be required to meet the same safety standards as that applied in respect of these lamps at vehicle Type Approval. Therefore, in order to pass the MOT test, vehicles fitted with after-market HID systems would also need to be fitted with headlamp
cleaning and self-levelling systems. Some high specification estate cars are fitted with a selflevelling suspension system and this would be considered as adequate for the purpose.

So it's either original spec and type-approved, or it's aftermarket!

So a car that did not have this option fitted at factory with all the required supporting systems, that is subsequently retro-fitted with only half the required technology is not legal as far as I'm concerned.

[TodiCroitor]

Out of curiosity how bad is the damage to the lamp unit ? is the glass in tact ?
These headlamps are designed to deliberately break on impact at specific weak points depending on the severity, there are repair brackets available from the dealers
6212F0 (left) & 6212F1 (right) for way less than the price of a complete lamp unit.

check this out:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/kcc7a33kelzg ... V96aa?dl=0
I had to trow some glue just to get home.

[vladd.alex]

Hello, colleagues. I met today one guy with a X7 with Xenon Bidirectional Headlamps, but replaced due to an accident. His car was not equipped from the beginning with this headlamps, but with classical ones. Due to this, he cannot switch to the high beam and the bidirectional movement is not working. I have tried to go into the BSI settings and turned to Xenon, but still nothing happen when trying to switch the beam. What is strange is also a lack of communication with the headlamp ECU, from Diagbox. My question would be how to help him to obtain at least the high beam switch possible. Is there a chance? Thank you.

[GiveMeABreak]

Hi Vlad

It’s another reason why I wouldn’t recommend a conversion, as there are too many factors to consider here. What type of suspension does he have? The Headlamp ECU needs to talk to the Suspension ECU and the Height Correctors, plus the wiring is different for the Xenons to start with. Did he also have the wash and headlamp system fitted?

Enabling the option in Diagbox wont make any difference if the wiring and circuitry isn’t there.

[vladd.alex]

You are right Marc but he didn’t knew it and he bought this type of headlamps (also expensive). He has hydractive 3+ and he has also washers. But I do not know what is missing...could be some wires, pins or even the ECU.

I would never recommend also this conversion but in this moment he needs a solution to have the high beam at least....

[GiveMeABreak]

Well like A.I. said Vlad, the wiring for the halogen and the xenons are completely different for a start. The high beam on the xenons required the electronics to move the shutter up and down to allow full or dipped beam. The directional headlight motors also need the correct power supply, so I don’t know what to suggest except putting his old headlamps back on and selling the others.